proplog2

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Posts by proplog2

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  34

  C.O / D.O leaving the `truth`???

  by jambon1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is probobly a long shot & i doubt it`s happened but does anyone know if any circuit overseers or district overseers have ever left.

  if so, in what circumstances?

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  proplog2

  What was Maximus. I thought he was a DO.
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  14

  Can you really believe everything in the Bible?

  by proplog2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  if we take the bible at face value we are confronted with a serious problem.

  how do we know when god is telling us the facts and when is he just telling us something he thinks we are capable of understanding?

  this is not quite the same as the argument that god lies on occasion.

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  proplog2

  If we take the Bible at face value we are confronted with a serious problem. How do we know when God is telling us the facts and when is he just telling us something he thinks we are capable of understanding? This is not quite the same as the argument that God lies on occasion. Those situations where it speaks of God putting falsehood in the mouths of false prophets are considered minor points by the "true believer" and they believe they can easily explain them away by manipulating the exact translation of some of the terms involved.

  The problem I’m referring to is found at Exodous 32:9-14

  9 And Jehovah went on to say to Moses: "I have looked at this people and here it is a stiff-necked people. 10 So now let me be, that my anger may blaze against them and I may exterminate them, and let me make you into a great nation."

  11 And Moses proceeded to soften the face of Jehovah his God and to say: "Why, O Jehovah, should your anger blaze against your people whom you brought out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a strong hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians say, ‘With evil intent he brought them out in order to kill them among the mountains and to exterminate them from the surface of the ground’? Turn from your burning anger and feel regret over the evil against your people. 13 Remember Abraham, Isaac and Israel your servants, to whom you swore by yourself, in that you said to them, ‘I shall multiply YOUR seed like the stars of the heavens, and all this land that I have designated I shall give to YOUR seed, that they may indeed take possession of it to time indefinite.’"

  14 And Jehovah began to feel regret over the evil that he had spoken of doing to his people.

  Take a close look at what is happening in this situation. The most straight forward explanation of this scripture is that Jehovah acts crazy- mad without considering all the consequences. That doesn’t make for a very pleasant picture of the person who in his omnipotence and omnicience created everything in the universe. An apologist is immediately tempted to explain this with some kind of personal theory about God’s objective in the situation. For example it might be asserted that God was testing Moses in some way. Perhaps he was testing Moses’ commitment to leading the Israelites. Or some may claim that Jehovah was teaching Moses a lesson in showing mercy. Maybe one or another of these claims is true. But, the Bible doesn’t say. These tales are spun because if you take it literally it makes God look bad.

  There is a catch 22 to all of this. If you accept one of the invented explanations you have started a game of croquet with the queen of hearts. Grab a flamingo mallet and try to hit the hedgehog balls. At the very least you must now consider the possibility that every situation in the Bible may or may not be designed to teach some lesson and therefore not to be taken literally. For example how do you know that the Genesis story of creation is a real representation of the facts or is it trying to illustrate some principal such as the headship of man over woman. Or consider the Battle of Armageddon. Is God really going to destroy 6.5 billion people, thus admitting he produced an unreliable prototype? Or is he going to later get talked out of it - teaching humans a lesson in mercy.

  This is not an attack on those who believe in the Bible. It is an attack on the dogmatic approach JW’s and other fundamentalists take in explaining the meaning of the Bible. For me, personally, this means I can pick and choose the parts of the Bible I want to believe.
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  15

  Why would god create magnificent angels and then create puny humans?

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so god wants to share the gift of life and creates his son and myriads of other powerful, angelic creations to to share eternity with.

  these are rational, intelligent self-aware individuals with awesome capabilities.

  they can travel the universe in moments and are blessed by the literal presence of almighty god.. then he makes us and sticks us on a rock.

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  proplog2

  God must like the smell of shit. That is the one consistent thing we produce.

  It's just abslolutely incoherent. What more proof do you need that we really evolved.

  Don't just flush it. Smell the aroma. Admire the variety of texture and shape before it swirls away.
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  45

  Something significant changed in the WTS in 1984... but what was it???

  by Elsewhere in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  looking at this chart i can't help but notice that pre-1984 the growth statistics were extremely erratic.

  then, all of the sudden in 1984 the growth statistics calmed down and have ever since fallowed a much more stable trend.

  it's almost a straight line after 1984.. so what happened?

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  proplog2

  The main thing is that the Watchtower organization really believed the increases of the early 1950'S were going to continue. They presumptuously thought that it was a sign of God's favor. Statisticians surely would not be impressed. If the increases of the 1950's would have been sustained there would be about 60,000,000 JW's by now. That would be about 1 in every 60 people on earth. That would be impressive!!! Alas. It didn't happen. But the counting continues.
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  45

  Something significant changed in the WTS in 1984... but what was it???

  by Elsewhere in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  looking at this chart i can't help but notice that pre-1984 the growth statistics were extremely erratic.

  then, all of the sudden in 1984 the growth statistics calmed down and have ever since fallowed a much more stable trend.

  it's almost a straight line after 1984.. so what happened?

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  proplog2

  The trend using moving averages is really quite predictable. The 1975 blip smooths out. This is a graph that reflects a slowing growth. As someone else mentioned - as the number of individuals increase there is a general smoothing of the trend.

  The 1975 jump and subsequent correction is the most obvious event.

  Rutheford liked "advertising". If he were alive today he would have to acknowledge the "brand" is tired and it needs a "new and improved version" to keep it going.
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  41

  Bible-Believing and the End Times

  by jgnat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  auld soul and star moore, i'm starting a new thread on this topic so we don't entangle black swan's excellent thread.

  like auld soul, i am also very interested in how a bible-believer comes to the conclusion that we are living in the end times now.

  i'm not questioning the bible here, but the observations that make a modern reader come to this conclusion.. and secondary to that, like auld soul, i would like to understand how believing the end times are imminent change a christian's behavior, if at all.. star moore:.

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  proplog2

  The whole thrust of the Bible is Salvation through a time of great tribulation that involves the formation of a new world. The "faithful" are awake and "watching".

  A Christian is not allowed the luxury of thinking the "end" is a long way off. If a Christian really reaches the conclusion that the end is in the distant future it will be their human nature to quit looking for the signs and indicators.

  For example if you buy a brand new car and you've driven it for a couple of months during the break-in period without any problems you settle in to a period where you just enjoy your car. You aren't hyper-alert - listening for signs of trouble. You realize that at some point your car will get old and prone to failure but that's in the distant future.

  If you buy a used car with 150,000 miles on it - you pay attention to every little noise and mechanical action knowing that some major failure is "near".

  You can't safely drive an old car like you do a new one.

  One of the marks of the "holy ones" is that they would be watchful.
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  19

  Is the truth of something the path of least resistance?

  by Spectrum in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  unless hidden or confused by disinformation i believe that knowing the truth is found by following the path of least resistance.

  if this criterion is not met then you cannot conclude that you have the truth.

  the truth has a way of sorting itself out unless unatural forces are used to skew it.

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  proplog2

  Do a google search on the words PARSIMONY + SCIENCE

  Lot to say about simplicity & truth.
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  2

  Evolution Sunday

  by startingover in

  1. social
  2. current

  i found an article in my local newspaper this morning about "evolution sunday".

  it seems to me that religions will bend whatever way it takes to keeps people attending.

  http://www.uwosh.edu/colleges/cols/rel_evol_sun.htm.

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  proplog2

  Thank God For Evolution
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  23

  I Talked To A Friend About His Feeling That JWs Are Right In "Some" Things

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this friend was a fellow elder with me.

  in the last few years he's successfully faded with his immediate family.

  however his mother who was never "strong in the truth" is still a "believer".

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  proplog2

  Well now we know the meaning of religion. Helps us avoid having to come to grips with our own mortality. Tell your friend he's getting closer to the truth every day. People are dying to know the answer to the question of life after death.

  I believe in an after life. After life there is death.
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  17

  Witness history or As I See It

  by joelbear in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  some guy reads the materials of some other guy and gets the idea of marketing it himself.

  adds pizazz "i am the faithful slave", dramatic effect, the end will come in 1914 and boom you have a product.

  advertise, advertise, advertise thee kingdom of god.

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  proplog2

  I didn't see this post until after I posted something similar. Your are right. Rutheford was really a PR man. Would have made agreat politician if not campaign manager. Most of the jargon that he introduced would fit in great with AMWAY or other MLMs.

  It's no wonder he had his eye on California.

  He even had his own personal dietician. How cool was that!