Still waiting for someone to comment on the translation "springs from" at Revelation 17:11
I think this is a real problem for the Watchtower's belief that the eighth king is the UN
proplog2
JoinedPosts by proplog2
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36
If the UN dissolves...will the WTS recover?
by AuldSoul inthere is a public groundswell of support within the united states of america, inc. for the us to withdraw from the un.
while this departing of one-half of the seventh king (and the "king of the south") could be prophetically spun into a harmless twist and twang on an old saw, the general consensus seems to be that the un would have great difficulty maintaining orderliness within its ranks.
also, there is a strong argument to be made that without us financial backing the un would fold due to a shortage of funding.. although it isn't particularly likely, it is certainly a possibility.
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Angels & Sexual urges..
by tan ini was reading another thread and wondered why it was that the perfect angels began to have sexual urges???
i also wondered if the resurrected ones were not to procreate why a loving god would put them on the earth to tease them.
jthey're going to be perfect too, will they eventually have these urges too, just to be destroyed when it's all said and done.
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proplog2
If there is anything to those ancient stories I
believeimagine angels are material beings from a parallel universe that have cloaking technology. They appear when they turn off the cloaking devices.If peace is achieved in other worlds it would most likely be at the expense of sexual reproduction. Sex is at the root of Nationalism and territoriality.
Maybe there is some "law" in the cosmic federation that prohibits having sex with other intelligent species. Although, having sex with humans may be considered similar to bestiality by an advanced species.
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If the UN dissolves...will the WTS recover?
by AuldSoul inthere is a public groundswell of support within the united states of america, inc. for the us to withdraw from the un.
while this departing of one-half of the seventh king (and the "king of the south") could be prophetically spun into a harmless twist and twang on an old saw, the general consensus seems to be that the un would have great difficulty maintaining orderliness within its ranks.
also, there is a strong argument to be made that without us financial backing the un would fold due to a shortage of funding.. although it isn't particularly likely, it is certainly a possibility.
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proplog2
You don't have to wait for the UN to fold. The Watchtower's UN explanation for the beast that "was, is not" is flawed.
I would like to see the Greek experts here examine the Watchtowers translation of Rev. 17;11. They translate "out of" as "springs from". Many translations use the words "out of" or even "one of". The words "springs from the seven" is the Watchtowers key scripture to prove that the Eighth head is the UN.
I tend to prefer "the wild beast that was but is not, it is also itself an eighth king, but is "one of" the seven.
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DID FOSSILS MAKE YOU DOUBT?
by badboy indid/does discovery of new fossils make you/or those around you doubt the creation version of things?
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proplog2
Creationsits did a good thing when they came out of their caves to try to alter the way science is taught in schools.
It got scientists out of their ivory towers to explain their ideas.
Once the scientists realized the serious nature of the threat they brought out their best stuff and demolished the nonsense that was being circulated among the creationists I had figured out by 1978 that man evolved. I still thought that God used evolution to create. Now I am comfortable with the idea that there is no God at all. God is an incoherent idea.
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Angels & Sexual urges..
by tan ini was reading another thread and wondered why it was that the perfect angels began to have sexual urges???
i also wondered if the resurrected ones were not to procreate why a loving god would put them on the earth to tease them.
jthey're going to be perfect too, will they eventually have these urges too, just to be destroyed when it's all said and done.
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proplog2
Somehow angels are supposed to be able to materialize bodies complete with sperm that is interfertile with human eggs.
In the prescientific mind such things are possible and unquestioned. Materialization is perceived as some sort of capacity that angels have naturally. They kind of do a little "uuhh" and they become material complete with reproductive capacity. Why would God create them with such a capacity. Why didn't he give them "blanks" to shoot?
Pardon the expression but that whole scenario in a scientific view is just "nuts".
Even science didn't discover the nature of sperm and eggs until they developed microscopy.
In the Bible they thought that males had the seeds and females had the soil. Women were fertile soil or barren soil. They didn't know that the male had only half of what made up another human.
This uninformed thinking is the basis of sin and salvation. When Adam sinned he had little people inside that shared his transgressions.
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What were the best Watchtower years?
by JH induring what period of time did they have some credibility and were they most active and making the most money?.
around here, when i joined back in 1987, there were so many pioneers in the congregation and they were in the field service morning, afternoon and evening.
that lasted about 5 years, then it was a quick and steady decline in field service and a decline in building new halls.
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proplog2
TD
I agree with you. The biggest increases were in the early 1950's. The "generation" of 1914 was still young enough to lead. The nuclear age had just begun. There was a clear King of the North & King of the South. The large 8-day Assemblies were "real" movements and solidifying experiences. The decision to get baptized was spontaneous and heartfelt NOT contrived and subject to a tribunal. The world itself was almost as authoritarian as the Watchtower. The speakers at assemblies had freedom to express themselves creatively - so they were less boring.
People were rarely disfellowshipped. You could speculate all you wanted without anyone accusing you of apostacy. The blood doctrine was vague. You could neck and pet on unchapperoned dates without being brought before the judges. Congregations could have competitive baseball games and big congregation picnics. No one was disfellowshipped for smoking. There were basement parties for teens about once a week in the big metro areas.
Almost all young men were pioneers to avoid the draft. Young men could have serious teaching positions in the congregation at the age of 14. This was important to me because it kept me busy in a creative way.
It all started to fall apart in 1966 with the setting of the 1975 date. Every year the organization kept tightening the noose. When the 1970's started the organization became obsessed with cleaning up before they entered the "promised land/ New Order". They thought the end was near so they broadened the definition of fornication to include petting and necking. They felt they had to be free of those dirty filthy smokers. The final step was to create "elders" who could govern the congregations. These were men that were previously side-lined because they were horrible speakers but now they could share in "shepherding" bossing and policing everyone.
The organization is a jet airplane with both the pilot and co-pilot dead of food poisoning.
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Watchtower Progress, One Funeral At a Time
by metatron inthere once was a scientist who cynically observed that science seems to progress one funeral at a time, as older men depart (as obstacles).
and new theories are allowed to flourish.
in the case of authoritarian regimes, the demise of the "old guard" can bring about sudden changes.
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proplog2
They will probably grab our old visitor YouKnow and make him their oracle.
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Watchtower Progress, One Funeral At a Time
by metatron inthere once was a scientist who cynically observed that science seems to progress one funeral at a time, as older men depart (as obstacles).
and new theories are allowed to flourish.
in the case of authoritarian regimes, the demise of the "old guard" can bring about sudden changes.
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proplog2
You need new ideas and feeding old brains to bacteria seems to be the best guarantee.
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If you heard this headline on the news, would you be frightened?
by free2beme in"visitors from outer space reveal themselves, and make contact".
now, i realize this is something seen on those supermarket tabloids all the times.
what i am saying, is what if it was true and the networks had it on, cnn, foxnews, msnbc, etc.
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proplog2
"Then the sign of the son of man will appear in heaven."
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Materialised demons... why not?
by LtCmd.Lore inacctualy i don't believe in demons anymore.
but the recent bible teach study caused me to wonder... why does the society think that the demons are not capable of making bodies for themselves anymore, there was no support scripture so i looked it up on the wt library:.
in 1953 there was a questions from readers about why they posess people and animals... they simply stated without any proof that they are incapable of making bodies anymore.. then in 1955 they offer a scripture.. *** w55 10/1 p. 594 par.
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proplog2
Our book study conductor kept getting these scary eyes while talking about demons. I would swear he had Graves disease - the Thyroid disorder that makes the eyes bug out.
A lot of my agnostic x-witness friends say they would love to have an encounter with anything angel or demon. At least they could believe in the possibility of God's existence.
If there is a Devil he doesn't leave much of a trail.
The idea of angels having sex with women has been discussed before. They would have to have gonads to have that much sexual interest. Did they like the feeling between their legs before or after they materialized? The whole concept of materialization is based on the Platonic idea of "soul" as something that is at the control panel. Modern science has found that there is no one controling the behavior of the universe or human behavior.