Posts by proplog2

31

Why would God speak in symbols if he really wanted us to understand?

by rebel8 in

if i was a deity and wanted people to know "the truth", i would just say it in plain language instead of veiling everything in symbolism, innuendo, and vague hints.

what does that method of communication accomplish?.

if i remember correctly, the borg answer to that is this method of communicating tricks the bad people but the good people can figure it out just fine.

proplog2

The answer is simple. If there were a God (omnipotent, omnicient etc.) he would speak plainly to be understood. Therefore...

< there is no God>

or

31

Why would God speak in symbols if he really wanted us to understand?

by rebel8 in

if i was a deity and wanted people to know "the truth", i would just say it in plain language instead of veiling everything in symbolism, innuendo, and vague hints.

what does that method of communication accomplish?.

if i remember correctly, the borg answer to that is this method of communicating tricks the bad people but the good people can figure it out just fine.

proplog2

Narkissos:

Are you familiar with the concept of E-Prime? Where they attempt to eliminate the use of "to be".

44

What's Your FAVORITE Type of Music???

by minimus in

jw
friends

i love r&b, soul, disco, and some classic rock.

one of my favorire songs is by al green, "let's stay together"......what do you like??

?

proplog2

Sir Nose:

Of course. You've got "ants in your pants"

27

Sex with your divorced mate scripturally wrong?

by Fatfreek in

lets say youre a jw married couple, get a divorce (unscriptural divorce, that is, so in jehovahs eyes you are still married), then both of you change your minds.

well, not completely.

you both realize the sex was great but your other needs and wants have changed in opposite directions.

JW's should encourage young people to marry and keep living with their own parents. Just think - they could keep pioneering save up some money AND have sex. This almost seems like a no-brainer since they are discouraged from getting the education you need to earn REAL money.

69

Have you ever had an encounter with a UFO?

by free2beme in

jw
friends

when i was about 16 years old, a group of us friends would go hiking a lot on the weekend.

we would rough it to some degree, just a sleeping back and sleeping under the stars.

one night, while hiking into a lake in northern california, we all were sleeping in a clearing just out of legal distance from a small mountain lake we liked to fish in.

proplog2

I had an experience that I reported in the following thread:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/18868/1.ashx

44

What's Your FAVORITE Type of Music???

by minimus in

jw
friends

i love r&b, soul, disco, and some classic rock.

one of my favorire songs is by al green, "let's stay together"......what do you like??

?

proplog2

Minimus:

I was born in 1945 so I came of age when Rock n Roll was just plain goofy - Charlie Brown, Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polka Dot Bikini, Car crash songs etc.

I couldn't stand listening to the stuff. At night I got clear channel WLAC out of Nashville TN. That's what I really liked. Howling Wolf, Muddy Waters, BB King, Joe Tex. I wished I was black.

As an adult I prefer straight Jazz mostly B-Bop. Like to go to the Green Mill in Chicago and catch a set or two of Willie Pickens.

Also I load up my mp3 with xm old time and contemporary gospel. Even though I don't believe in religion I feel uplifted by hearing people sing about conquering evil and relying on a higher power to pull you through adversity. People need that kind of belief to keep hanging on.

At the hall I just can't get myself to sing "From house to house - From door to door dum dum dee dum dee dumb"

73

Babylon is not the Symbolic CIty of False Religion.

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

the babylon with "graven images" quoted from jeremiah and isaiah was not a religious entity but a political entity.

jeremiah 43:12. .

jeremiah 43:13. .

proplog2

The current tract work is a showcase for another prediction that will come to disappointment.

I have noticed an exceptional zeal for distributing this tract. My congregation used up their supply already.

What really irritates me about the Babylon the Great interpretation is that it is one of those things they use to control members lives.

You can't go to weddings in Churches.

You can't be in a wedding that takes place in a Church or is conducted by one of the clergy.

You can't have a membership in a YMCA even if they have the best pool and exercise facility in your area.

If you are a tradesman or even a janitor you can't provide any ongoing service to a church or a church run school or day care center.

You can't send you children to a church run school even if it is safer and better than a government run school.

It seems they do make an exception if you attend a Church owned University.

You can't give your old clothes to a resale store that is associated with a religion.

It used to be that you couldn't take a job in a hospital that is affiliated with a religious order. I don't know if that's still the case.

I know some JW's who won't even pull into a church parking lot to turn around and go in another direction.

73

Babylon is not the Symbolic CIty of False Religion.

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

the babylon with "graven images" quoted from jeremiah and isaiah was not a religious entity but a political entity.

jeremiah 43:12. .

jeremiah 43:13. .

proplog2

In two weeks we will be discussing the subject "Identifying Babylon the Great". This little article is in the appendix of the "Bible Teach" book.

This is their explanation of why Babylon the Great can't be a political entity:

"An empire can be political, commercial, or religious. The woman named Babylon the Great is not a political empire because God's Word states that "the kings of the earth," or the political elements of this world, "committed fornication" with her. Her fornication refers to the alliances she has made with the rulers of this earth and explains why she is called "the great harlot." -Revelation 17:1, 2; James 4:4."

But how can they reach that conclusion? Especially when you consider Isaiah 23:17

And it must occur at the end of seventy years that Jehovah will turn his attention to Tyre (a political entity), and she must return to her hire and commit prostitution with all the kingdoms of the earth upon the surface of the ground."

Is this self-explanatory? Is the Watchtower going to make the claim that Tyre is NOT a political entity? How can Tyre be a political entity and simultaneously commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the earth BUT Babylon the Great cannot?

Back to the "Bible Teach" book:

Babylon the Great cannot be a commercial empire because the "merchants of the earth," representing the commercial elements, will be mourning her at the time of her destruction.

Here they are making the claim that Babylon the Great can't be a commerical empire. Well, a political entity certainly can be a commercial empire. Babylon the Great is described as being a commercial empire at Revelation 18:23 OK Back to "Bible Teach"

because your traveling merchants were the top-ranking men of the earth.

Again this is the same language used to describe Tyre at Isaiah 23:8

Who is it that has given this counsel against Tyre, the bestower of crowns, whose merchants were princes, whose tradesmen were the honorable ones of the earth?

OK Back to "Bible Teach" Was Ninevah a political enitty or was it a religion?

The religious identity of Babylon the Great is further confirmed by the statement that she misleads all the nations by means of her "spiritistic practice." (Revelation 18:23)

Was Ninevah a political entity or was it a religion? We know it was the capital of the Assyrian World Empire. So then explain how it is possible to be described the way it is at Nahum 3:4

Owing to the abundance of the acts of prostitution of the prostitute, attractive with charm, a mistress of sorceries, she who is ensnaring nations by her acts of prostitution and families by her sorceries

Here is an example of a political entity that in addition to being referred to as a prostitute is also a sorcerer or practicer of spiritism. Does that mean that Ninevah could not possibly be a political kingdom and must therefore be a religious entity? NO. It appears a political kingdom CAN be referred to as carrying on spiritistic practices. So how can the Watchtower say that the great harlot CANNOT be a political enitty and that she must be a worldwide religious entity because she carries on spiritistic practices.

I am getting tired of the special formatting. The "Bible Teach" book finally says "

"This empire is also described as being actively opposed to true religion, persecuting "prophets" and "holy ones." (Revelation 18:24) "

Read Revelation 18:24 for yourself. "Yes in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth". This hyperbole is almost the same as that used to describe the blood-guilt of the political enity - Babylon .

Jeremiah 51:49 "Not only was Babylon the cause for the slain ones of Israel to fall but also at Babylon the slain ones of ALL the earth have fallen" Ancient Babylon was a political enitty.

Is anyone still going to argue that Babylon the Great is some World Empire of False Religion? Millions of tracts distributed simultaneously throughout the world doesn't make the message true.

73

Babylon is not the Symbolic CIty of False Religion.

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

the babylon with "graven images" quoted from jeremiah and isaiah was not a religious entity but a political entity.

jeremiah 43:12. .

jeremiah 43:13. .

proplog2

Amazing:

You pointed out that:

Revelation also says that in her no more will be found the bride and bridegroom. People get married in churches.

This does not automatically suggest religion. Revelation 18: 22 includes the sound of a millstone as something that wouldn't be heard again. The things listed were the typical sounds and scenes you would see in a thriving city.

Revelation 18:22 is almost a direct quote from Jeremiah 25:10,11 "And I will destroy out of them the sound of exultation and the sound of rejoicing, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the sound of the hand mill and the light of the lamp. And all this LAND (not temples) must become a devasted place, and object of astonishment."

I remember many speakers at the Kingdom Hall make this mistake. They weren't trying to mislead. It was a convenient misunderstanding and no one would question it because it seemed to fit.

73

Babylon is not the Symbolic CIty of False Religion.

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

the babylon with "graven images" quoted from jeremiah and isaiah was not a religious entity but a political entity.

jeremiah 43:12. .

jeremiah 43:13. .

proplog2

Leolia:

I agree with you on this. Whoever wrote Revelation would probably view Rome as Babylon the Great. In your research is there anything about Christians getting out of Rome because they thought She was about to be destroyed? (Rev. 18:2-4) I know persecution at times would have driven them out.

This is a good point:

all the trade goods listed in 18:12-13 were exactly the items that came from all over the Roman Empire to be traded in Rome,

You can't conclude on the basis of the "trade list" that Babylon the Great is religion. Although the Kingdom News 37 seems to try to do that:

"Whom does the harlot represent? She exerts influence "over the kings of the earth". She dresses in purple, uses incense, and is exceedingly wealthy." Page 3 paragraph 2 KN37

Apparently they fail to understand that incense was commonly used in wealthy households. Even if some of the items were specifically intended for religious use that doesn't mean that all of the items were for use at religious temples. Spices, olive oil, gold, cattle, sheep, horses? And they pick out "incense" to make some kind of point that its talking about religion.

It seems JW's are locked into Freddy Franzism and they will never take a step back to see the non-sense.