Mr. Majestic:
I did not accuse mcsemike of negligence. I said that because I don't know his situation I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that it was a case where he was as vigilant as could be reasonably expected. This is just the opposite of accusing him.
But then I said that this same lack of information should keep us from jumping to the conclusion that it was all the fault of the local witnesses.
The person that performed the act is definitely responsible for his actions.
Outlaw was not giving me the benefit of the doubt. He was using his lack of information to suggest that I am a child molester.
That's like the prosecutor asking the accused to answer yes or no - "Have you stopped beating your wife?"
proplog2
JoinedPosts by proplog2
-
139
Bethel layoffs in 2008 - 300+ and counting
by sir82 infrom the mouth of one of the special pioneers assigned tour congregation:.
at least 300 have been terminated from the us bethel branch in the first month of 2008, and she expects the number to increase.
paraphrasing other comments:.
-
-
proplog2
-
139
Bethel layoffs in 2008 - 300+ and counting
by sir82 infrom the mouth of one of the special pioneers assigned tour congregation:.
at least 300 have been terminated from the us bethel branch in the first month of 2008, and she expects the number to increase.
paraphrasing other comments:.
-
-
proplog2
Outlaw:
I read the statistics. I don't keep them in my head. But there have been hundreds of articles in newspapers and magazines about child molestation - certainly enough to make any normally prudent person cautious.
I valued the mental health of my children too much to allow this to happen. But it's like fighting terrorists. You've got to be 100% vigilant. A molester only needs one opportunity.
I don't trust children. They don't have a track record with managing their impulses. I certainly wouldn't trust someone just because they belong to the same church. I trusted my parents because they raised me and never abused me. I generally don't trust men with kids because molestation seems to be a male problem.
And this is too much of an answer to someone who just insinuated that I am a child molester.
You're pathetic. (Mixed contempt and pity) You are a disappointment to me. I think an apology is in order.
Shame on all on this thread who think Outlaw is justified in his comment. -
139
Bethel layoffs in 2008 - 300+ and counting
by sir82 infrom the mouth of one of the special pioneers assigned tour congregation:.
at least 300 have been terminated from the us bethel branch in the first month of 2008, and she expects the number to increase.
paraphrasing other comments:.
-
-
proplog2
mcsemike:
Your daughters experience may "explain" your anger against the organization but it doesn't "justify" it.
I don't know you and I can't even know if you are telling the truth. If you really went through that then I can understand your strong feelings. You haven't given the details for good reason - it brings back a lot of rage. But it is those (unspoken) details that determine how much blame the Watchtower should accept and sadly the degree to which you too may not have exercised enough caution.
I have raised 4 kids. I never trusted anyone alone with my kids. Not even in an adjoining room. I never allowed my older children to be alone with their younger brothers and sisters with a door closed. You are not obligated to defend your actions to anyone. We must give you the benefit of the doubt and assume some kind of scenario where it was absolutely unavoidable that your little girl was in a situation long enough for her to be molested.
But, to be fair, the "brothers" in your old congregation deserve be given the benefit of the doubt and we must assume some kind of scenario where they did all they could reasonably do to avoid this event.
The only thing that is certain is that the person who commits the crime is the one who deserves punishment. Anyone else's liability is a matter to be settled in court. And even courts don't always get it right.
What gets me is the knee jerk sympathy that is handed out on this board. And lurkers ought to be cautioned that there are liars and crazies that are free to post whatever they desire. -
50
Jesus is the Key
by potentialJWconvertswife infirst off, i want to thank you all for being so patient with this newbie, who's become a posting fury!
now to the heart of the matter: jesus.
christians know jesus saves.
-
-
proplog2
Potential JW wife:
Actually, of all the religions other than JW's I probably could be comfortable as a Catholic.
They are now anti-war. They accommodate evolution. Their respect for life goes beyond anti-abortion and includes anti-capital punishment. To me those are really important issues.
Unfortunately, there are too many Catholics that don't follow the current teachings of their bishops.
Peace -
29
I voted in an election for the first time in my life!
by First Time Voter ini post under a different name on this forum, but there are some people that read this site that know who i am in person, so i am posting under a different alias so as not to get myself in hot water.. .
anyway, for the first time in over 20 years of eligibility, i voted in today's primary.
in a church!
-
-
proplog2
welcome to the world of futility
-
139
Bethel layoffs in 2008 - 300+ and counting
by sir82 infrom the mouth of one of the special pioneers assigned tour congregation:.
at least 300 have been terminated from the us bethel branch in the first month of 2008, and she expects the number to increase.
paraphrasing other comments:.
-
-
proplog2
mcsemike:
What you have experienced has been unfortunate but not catastrophic.
You need to transcend your hate. As proverbs says "The taking of offense is in the heart of the stupid one".
You are "stuck" at your "sick point". You think you are too "special" to suffer. It's so unfair. Right? I'm sure you know what bull shit you are telling yourself to avoid getting through the "impasse".
You need more work.
....but, don't we all.
You are way too judgemental of JW's. -
12
Acts 15:19,20,28,29 what does it really mean?
by beginnersmind ini'm not completely sold on these verses at acts 15:19,20,28,29 meaning it was just to keep harmony with jews and gentiles.
i can see that meaning in those verses but also another one.
to me that can mean that they arent going to add circumcision to the list of burdens or necessary things and those things listed in v29 are burdens not simply some things to keep harmony.
-
-
proplog2
Fornication was mentioned because gentiles were known to be very loose sexually. The Jews were used to laws governing sexual behavior. As you know prostitutes were incorporated into worship of the gods of the nations. This letter was a way to end the controversy over circumcision and at the same time throw some meat to the Jewish guard dogs.
Ok. You don't have to go through all the trouble WE did and get your foreskin snipped but you filthy gentiles better quit fornicating and if you want us to eat with you it had better be kosher. slap! -
139
Bethel layoffs in 2008 - 300+ and counting
by sir82 infrom the mouth of one of the special pioneers assigned tour congregation:.
at least 300 have been terminated from the us bethel branch in the first month of 2008, and she expects the number to increase.
paraphrasing other comments:.
-
-
proplog2
I don't have much pity for these people. I'm sorry. I am 62. I have been self-employed my whole life. I have no pension. I have changed the way I earn a living at least 5 times. I still don't have health insurance. My wife and I raised 4 kids. I got no help financially from my JW parents. I rent. I never owned a home. But, I have enjoyed the freedom of being able to read 2-3 books per week on subjects of my choice for the last 35 years. Sometimes, I get depressed because I am still working but I'm not afraid. I'm still better off then 99% of the people in the world.
These people that have been "re-assigned" probably don't have children. If they are single it should be even easier to provide for themselves. There are just so many ways to earn enough to support yourself.
You couldn't pay me $5,000 per month to be a special pioneer. -
46
Jesus was a false prophet....
by dawg ini posted this on another thread, but if you read matthew 24, we see that jesus was indeed a false prophet... he doesn't give the day or hour of the end times but he says that this generation will not pass away until all these things occur... and what generation was he talking about?
he was talking to his diciples and telling them you will see this and that and thus and such....especially take a gander at matt 24: 33-36...jesus thought he was living in the last days and that he would come down from a cloud from the heavens...that stars would fall from the sky, and the like... just read it and tell me what you think.
i wonder if jesus was an essene, they thought they were living in the end of time, in fact they predicted a messiah would come during their days... .
-
-
proplog2
Hey Dawg - You kind of asked for it... so here's a little more.
Amazingly, Jesus prophesied the falling away from his teachings. At the appointed time the true Christian congregation would re-emerge and ripen until it would be clear who were really following the faith.
This whole process shows an unearthly knowledge of the way the human mind and society has evolved. When it comes to performing tasks the mind has evolved to be concerned with what has to be done RIGHT NOW. As animals we need to take care of things as they emerge in importance. We can't ease our mind with "I'll do it later". If it is in our mind it is RIGHT NOW. If it isn't in our mind it doesn't exist. Our ability to abstract has helped us to make lists where we can prioritize things. But we can't do a list. We have to do one thing at a time.
So if the apostles were told that it will be two thousand years before Christ would return then they would have done nothing. The same applies to the modern history of JW's. If Russell would have known that the end was 4 generations into the future he wouldn't have spent his life's fortune printing Watchtower, Bibles and Tracts. It would have been simply the Tract Society.
The time frame of Jesus' prophecies can be understood NOW. This is a case where deception is not misleading. It is leading the congregation in the right direction. It is a case of being wrong for the right reasons.
The reason Dawg and others find it so easy to ridicule is not that they are dumb. They are smart. But they lack creativity. They fail to resolve the dichotomies. They are using primitive black/white right/wrong thinking tools. The same can be said about the Watchtower. They are locked into the same kind of two-valued thinking. Eventually, human society will evolve to the point where they can tolerate more ambiguity.
Jesus was not a false prophet he was an "ambiguous" prophet. This was necessary to facilitate the work that needed to be accomplished. -
139
Bethel layoffs in 2008 - 300+ and counting
by sir82 infrom the mouth of one of the special pioneers assigned tour congregation:.
at least 300 have been terminated from the us bethel branch in the first month of 2008, and she expects the number to increase.
paraphrasing other comments:.
-
-
proplog2
"Are discharged members just thrown out into the street? Or are there arrangements that are made for as smooth a transition as possible. I don't know. Perhaps one of you experts on this subject can outline the procedure. Or maybe you don't know either. In which case why don't you call Bethel out of concern and find out how this all works." Still no serious research about this.