Posts by pseudoxristos

63

Virgin Birth Claim Disproves Biblical Inspiration

by AlanF in

many bible believers claim that the old testament contains over 300 so-called messianic prophecies.

however, a careful look at such claims shows that at least 80% of these have absolutely no connection with jesus, or with events beyond what the ancient writer was concerned with.. take, for example, the famous example of the supposed virgin birth of jesus.

this is based on the text of matthew 1:18-23 (nasb):18 now the birth of jesus christ was as follows: when his mother mary had been betrothed to joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the holy spirit.

pseudoxristos

Alan,

On the notion that the writer of Matthew quoted from the LXX, the Watchtower and a number of other commentators would disagree with it, since they argue -- perhaps correctly -- that Matthew was originally written in Hebrew.

Since most scholars believe that the writers of Matthew and Luke used Mark as a source while writing their gospels, is it really likely that Matthew was written in Hebrew? Just curious, because I never bought into the idea that Matthew was first written in Hebrew.

Also, I never realized that Matthew and Luke are the only ones to mention the Virgin birth. The following is from the “Interpreter's One Volume Commentary”.

The Hebrew original of the verse quoted from Isa 7:14 speaks of almah, i.e. a "young woman" who shall conceive and bear a son. It is the period of conception and birth, not her virginity, that is of importance for Isaiah. The Greek version of the OT in wide use among Jews from the first cent. B.C. on (the LXX) had translated almah by the Greek word parthenos-virgin. Matt. uses this translation, since it suits his purpose of showing that Jesus was divinely conceived in fulfillment of the Hebrew Scriptures. Although Luke has his own version of the extraordinary birth of Jesus, he does not quote or refer to the virgin birth passage from Isa. Neither Mark, or John, nor Paul has any hint of the virgin birth story; it seems to have become important for the church only in the 2nd cent. as a way of combating the charge that Jesus was not truly human. These stories insisted that he was truly born, although they also served to place Jesus at least on par with the pagan saviour-gods for whom a miraculous birth was claimed. Indeed, the idea of Jesus' virgin birth does not figure at all in the rest of Matt.; it is the conviction that Jesus is Emmanuel...God with us that is more significant than the circumstances of his birth. (Interpreter's One Volume Commentary)

Is it possible that Virgin birth concept was also found in the Q document used by Matthew and Luke?

pseudo

63

Virgin Birth Claim Disproves Biblical Inspiration

by AlanF in

many bible believers claim that the old testament contains over 300 so-called messianic prophecies.

however, a careful look at such claims shows that at least 80% of these have absolutely no connection with jesus, or with events beyond what the ancient writer was concerned with.. take, for example, the famous example of the supposed virgin birth of jesus.

this is based on the text of matthew 1:18-23 (nasb):18 now the birth of jesus christ was as follows: when his mother mary had been betrothed to joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the holy spirit.

pseudoxristos

The fact that Matthew was using the Septuagint when quoting Isaiah, brings up another interesting point.

Witnesses (and others) believe that Matthew wrote his gospel originally in Hebrew. If this is actually true, Why would a he find it necessary to quote from the Greek Septuagint?

pseudo

26

Memoral time kids...... anyone going?

by Pepper in

i don't about you all but being raised a jehovah's witness was so ingrained in me that going to the memoral seems the right thing to do at this time of the year.

so i for one will do it for no other reason other than i was trained that way, and of course i like the song they sing its touching and i am a big sinner lord have mercey!

pepper

pseudoxristos

"The Memorial??????"

Like I want to be around a bunch of people that have only one Holiday, and it is a celebration of someones death.

That is just "wrong".

pseudo

60

Let's Play Jesus Dress Up!

by Valis in

jw
friends

i thought ya'll might get a kick out of this one...something to put a smile on your face.. .

sincerely,.

district overbeer of the "messianic fashion plate" class

pseudoxristos

60

Let's Play Jesus Dress Up!

by Valis in

jw
friends

i thought ya'll might get a kick out of this one...something to put a smile on your face.. .

sincerely,.

district overbeer of the "messianic fashion plate" class

pseudoxristos

Picture Deleted.

I'm so ashamed!

Edited by - pseudoxristos on 5 February 2003 21:6:56

18

When did Jesus become The Christ?

by UnDisfellowshipped in

the watchtower society says that jesus became "the christ" at his baptism: .

"holy spirit - the force behind the coming new order" book (1975), page 90: .

"when did this jesus become actually 'christ the lord'?

pseudoxristos

If I remember correctly, the idea that Jesus became Christ at his baptism is referred to as the "Adoptionist Theory" and it has a long history. I believe that the idea comes from Psalms 2:5-7

5 Then will he speak to them in his anger, and in his fierce displeasure will he terrify them: 6 And *I* have anointed my king upon Zion, the hill of my holiness.
7 I will declare the decree: Jehovah hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; *I* this day have begotten thee.
Psalms 2:5-7 (Darby's)

It is also worth noting the different methods that the gospel writers use when describing the announcement

Matthew portrays it as an announcement to all present.

16 And Jesus, having been baptised, went up straightway from the water, and lo, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him: 17 and behold, a voice out of the heavens saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found my delight.
Matt 3:16-17 (Darby's)

Mark portrays it as an announcement to Jesus.

10 And straightway going up from the water, he saw the heavens parting asunder, and the Spirit, as a dove, descending upon him. 11 And there came a voice out of the heavens: *Thou* art my beloved Son, in thee I have found my delight.
Mark 1:10-11 (Darby's)

Luke portrays it as a announcement to Jesus.

22 and the Holy Spirit descended in a bodily form as a dove upon him; and a voice came out of heaven, *Thou* art my beloved Son, in thee I have found my delight.
Luke 3:22 (Darby's)

In the book of John, The Son of God is revealed to John the Baptist.

33 And I knew him not; but he who sent me to baptise with water, *he* said to me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and abiding on him, he it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit. 34 And I have seen and borne witness that this is the Son of God.
John 1:33-34 (Darby's)

pseudo

29

My Introduction

by Loris in

jw
friends

this is my introduction.

i was baptized july 9, 1965 in san diego, california.

37 years of my life devoted to a carefully contrived lie.

pseudoxristos

Loris,

A warm welcome to a very brave person. Your stand against the Watchtower is admirable.

pseudo

20

is it for real?

by What_The in

jw
friends

hi, i am new to the forum and would like to introduce myself by telling you all how i feel about things.

this is aimed at the thousands of lost souls out there who dont know where to turn.

life is not complicated unless you make it so... we as humans start of in this world with absolutely no possessions, emotions ( except survival ones), basic needs, no stress, anger, sadness or despairity just to mention some.

pseudoxristos

Well said, and welcome to the forum.

pseudo

18

Way off topic: any CAD people here?

by Stan Conroy in

jw
friends

just wondering if there are any cad gurus on this site?

if so, what software are you using?.

stan

pseudoxristos

Jim_TX,

What do you think of P-CAD, and is it inexpensive?

I looking for a schematic capture/router for work. We are currently using an old DOS based CAD (Draftsman EE). The company that made the program went out of business years ago. Unfortunately, we have a lot of boards created with this old program and I don't think we will be able to convert them to any other format.

For everyone else, I also want to add that, you can get a simple CAD program for circuit boards from www.expresspcb.com. It can only be used to order boards from them, but for about $60 you can get 3 boards (about 3.5 x 2.5) in 2 days. This is great for prototypes.

pseudo

22

If You Never Were A JW, Would You Believe In God?

by minimus in

jw
friends

so many here do not believe in god, now.

some are not sure he exists.

if you never had been a jehovah's witness, do you think that you might still believe in a creator, in god?

pseudoxristos

Although I was never a Witness, they did cause me to take a serious look at my beliefs. So, Yes, I probably would still believe in God if it wasn't for them.

It wasn't until after coming to this forum that I realized that many have independently come to the same conclusions that I have. I think that the Watchtower takes religion to such a ridiculous extreme that many of its problems become apparent.

For a while I was very upset that the Watchtower had forced me to discard my former beliefs. The thought of life after death was very comforting to me. But in the end I must say that I am much happier now with my current belief or should I say disbelief. Atheism, does not answer all of lifes questions, but I feel that it explains much more than my former belief system. I definitely do not miss the uncertainty and guilt that I always felt when I believed in God.

pseudo