i think that i read somewhere that jws believe that the magi who followed the star were 'evil' .
is that the case - if so how did they figure that?
paduan
Additional points I left out.
If this star (light) was from Satan, then he is a real dumb a**. The Magi obviously had good intentions for the beginning, because when they arrived, they worshiped Jesus and gave him gifts. They never had any intention of harming him. Satan should have known this.
Funny how pagan astrologers came to believe that Jesus was the King of the Jews and they went prepared to worship him and give gifts all because Satan guided them.
pseudo
i think that i read somewhere that jws believe that the magi who followed the star were 'evil' .
is that the case - if so how did they figure that?
paduan
Heathen,
Good points. If I recall correctly the meaning of the word "Lucifer" is morning star.
Matthew 2:9 When they had heard the king, they went their way; and, look! the star they had seen [when they were] in the east went ahead of them, until it came to a stop above where the young child was.
The magi were astrologers, how could they mistake a moving object like this as a star. This account seems to have been fabricated for it's symbolism. The historical accuracy of the account is unbelievable. The only thing worth debating may be its symbolism or why the author of Matthew would include it in his gospel. Yadirf's argument's over details from the point of view that it really occured are ridiculous.
One point the author of Matthew may have been trying to make was, that Jesus would be recognized by the rest of the world as the King of the Jews. The star or light represents Jesus. The Magi represent the Nations.
Matthew 4:15-17 that there might be fulfilled what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet, saying: 15 "O land of Zeb'u-lun and land of Naph'ta-li, along the road of the sea, on the other side of the Jordan, Gal'-i-lee of the nations' 16 the people sitting in darkness saw a great light, and as for those sitting in a region of deathly shadow, light rose upon them. 17 From that time on Jesus commenced preaching and saying: "Repent, you people, for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn near."
pseudo
edited because I can't spell
Edited by - pseudoxristos on 25 August 2002 3:31:7
i think that i read somewhere that jws believe that the magi who followed the star were 'evil' .
is that the case - if so how did they figure that?
paduan
Yadirf,
Satan had made the star to reappear
So, was this an actual star (sun in a distant solar system) a distant galaxy or a planet. And does Satan really have the power to make these objects appear and reappear.
This is one point in the NT that has so many characteristics of a Myth that it hardly seems worth debating.
pseudo
i have been reading this board since right before dateline.. i want to say thanks to simon for this great website!
i want to thank bill bowen, sheila bowen, barbara anderson, joe anderson, the pandelos, erica rodriguez, and all of the other silentlambs who have spoken out!.
i have some questions.. does anyone have any information about a circuit overseer named orval ellis (he used to be the co in arkansas, and then oklahoma, and just now colorado).
welcome to both of you.
pseudo
i understand that a lot believe that micheal and jesus are one in the same some believe that jehovah and jesus are one in the same some believe that one is the son of god yadda yadda yadda.. would some of you please address or post your reasons for believing that micheal the arc angel was not gods first creation and why he couldn't be the one sent to us to be born as a man and become our savyor?
why would he not have another name fitting his role as a man on earth?
he obviously wouldn't be living on earth as a child growing up as an angel.
plmkrzy,
My comment was directed more at yadirf. If I remember correctly, he was the one involved in most of the debating. I would never talk bad about you. Now, if you have invisible friends well......
pseudo
goals .
to get to the meeting ahead of time, .
and at the book counter to wait in line, .
This must be the result of years brainwashing. When someone is feed garbage constantly, they end up vomiting it back up. It is hard to believe that someone could be this zealous.
pseudo
goals .
to get to the meeting ahead of time, .
and at the book counter to wait in line, .
GOALS
To get to the meeting ahead of time,
And at the book counter to wait in line,
To be present and comment at every meeting,
To welcome strangers with a greeting.
To visit a sick one and encourage,
To avoid wrong speech that will discourage.
To strive to all the fruits display,
To not neglect the need to pray.
To help to clean the Kingdom Hall,
To cheer someone with a telephone call.
To place a book with the use of Scriptures,
To teach my child with the use of pictures.
To come to the aid of those who lack,
To read the magazines from front to back.
To correctly fill out the subscription blanks,
To welcome the speaker and tell him thanks.
To greet one another with a smile,
To work on that great big magazine pile.
To put an end to a malicious story,
To seek first the kingdom, and not to worry.
To answer mildly when someone mocks,
To not forget the contribution box.
To keep my Bible clean and neat,
To occasionally take a front row seat.
To really rehearse my student talk,
To watch how we speak and how we talk.
To forgive and forget the fault of a brother,
To prove that we are Christians who love one another.
To work house to house with the circuit overseer,
To get the seven times prophecy clearer.
To prepare my assignment well in advance,
To show a quiet and mild spirit, the truth to enhance.
To share an experience I had in the field,
To study and build up strong faith as a shield.
To be at the circuit assembly each session,
To strive to make true peace my possession.
To speak consolingly to all those depressed,
To actually apply what the Watchtower stressed.
To offer transport to a brother without,
To find out what our youth are thinking about.
To use an illustration to make a point clear,
To speak up loudly so that all can hear.
To concentrate on the talk and not fall asleep,
to grasp a new point or something that's deep.
To turn your report in before someone asks,
To willingly do a few menial tasks.
To show an interest in the old and young,
To think of your works before using the tongue.
To read all the chapters assigned for the week,
And always the others advantage to seek.
To auxiliary pioneer at least once a year,
To informally witness without any fear.
To stay for the service meeting following the school,
To remember to stress that God's Kingdom will rule.
To give a fine witness by conduct alone,
To submit as a wife to the head of the home.
To remember that scripture, and read today's text,
To consider your mate's view, and your own wishes next.
To underline the answer in each paragraph,
To hear a wrong comment and try not to laugh.
To stay out in the service a little bit longer,
To sing the kingdom songs a little bit stronger.
To listen intently to the prayer and then,
To respond when its over with a heartfelt "AMEN."
I am continually amazed at what some will post to be upbuilding to their brothers and sisters in this cult.
pseudoxristos
personally, i do not believe god ever has or ever will exist.
i have my reasons -- i guess i could be considered an agnostic, rather than an athiest.
i was curious to see what the larger part of the former borg community believed, now looking from the outside in, rather than the opposite.
GOD
discussion forum for anything not jw related.
... apostates are welcome !.
bla bla bla sin oh yes!
I wonder what would happen if....
oh well it didn't work.
Just thought I would experiment with the HTML editor since the thread was pointless anyway.
pseudoxristos
Edited by - pseudoxristos on 31 July 2002 2:4:53
just wondered how many people this this is all true.
feel free to really think about this one and provide proof and examples.
stocwach emphasises that "the First Century Christian writer's words must be conveyed exactly!" and so decribes it as a grossly butchered text. However, as we do not have the original manuscripts the translator uses certain principles to derive what was written. One of the principles the NWT committee specify is to use the name 'Jehovah' where they have reason to believe the original writers did so. Another principle, which is common to all translators, is that the immediate context is the final criterion for what words should be used. The immediate context in both verses is that Peter is referring to Jesus Christ and so it is reasonable to accept that while he borrowed the O.T. language it is most unlikely he used 'Jehovah' rather than 'Lord'. While the observation that rendering this verse with 'Jehovah' would conflict with JW theology is true, it would also conflict with trinitarian theology as the teaching that the Son is the Father (called Sabellianism) was declared a heresy some time before the trinity doctrine was fully formulated.
In consideration of the above highlighted statement. The NWT can not be considered a translation. It is a paraphrased version of the Bible. When a translator stops using the extant manuscripts and starts making assumptions, the end result can never be called a faithful translation. The NWT is a PARAPHRASED VERSION.
Justification for using the name "Jehovah" by referring to various Hebrew translations of the New Testament is also very misleading to the average reader. Most readers do not realize that these Hebrew translations are not ancient manuscripts. These translations also ignore the extant manuscripts when they insert the name "Jehovah" where it doesn't exist. They are nothing but later translations from Greek to Hebrew. They also should be considered paraphrased versions because they depart from the text of the extant manuscripts.
Metzger's quote: "Pernicious", "frightful", and "reprehensible", may not be an "objective, scholarly assessment", but it pretty well sums it up.
The NWT is nothing but error built upon error.
pseudoxristos
