Posts by FWFranz

19

Attention WT Writing Department: When was Frederick Franz baptized??? Please make up your mind!!!

by Calebs Airplane in

pop quiz for the watchtower writing department.... .

when was frederick franz baptized?

april 4, 1914 or november 30, 1913?.

FWFranz

I was absolutely certain that I was baptised on November 30, in the year 1913, but the faithful slave has received some "new light" and apparently I was baptised on April 4th 1914.

FWFranz

54

who was the craziest person in your congregation?

by grumblecakes in

jw
friends

pls share, i love these stories!.

If I had to recall to mind every unhinged witness that I have known in my life, including all my relatives, who's association goes back to the 1930's, I would be here for a week. That alone is troubling.

FWFranz

47

When You Were A JW Were You Disturbed By "Apostate" Literature or "Apostates" At Conventions?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i was always curious about what they had to say.

(i guess i was an apostate in the making)..

FWFranz

I remember in the mid 70's when I was pioneering, seeing a group of people protesting outside the Toronto Bethel with signs that said, "Truth Decay". I had no idea what their message was, and admittedly I was shocked to see them there. They had paper bags over their heads to protect their identities.

FWFranz

64

The Governing Body - their own worst enemy!

by cedars in

i've been giving some thought recently to what's going on in the minds of the individual governing body members, and what makes them tick.

the process of listening to their talks for my "getting to know you" youtube video series, though draining, has been very enlightening.

i now feel i know some of their individual personalities a little better than i did previously.. then there has been the tumultuous events of 2012. it's been interesting to note the way the governing body has responded to some of these issues, and how in most cases their responses have been woefully inadequate or even counter-productive as regards their long-term interests.. for example:.

FWFranz

Hi Cedars

I do agree that this new change in belief regarding the idenitiy of the FDS is a terrible idea. They have cut the umbilical cord to the last 2000 years of recorded Christian history. They are no longer connected with a direct link to the apostles and all who came after them. Severing this link will only make them look more like a nutty end time cult with pretensions of divine authority. As I stated in an earlier post they are now looking more like Herbert W. Armstrongs movement with this doctrinal change. The need to repeatedly clarify the identity of the slave also makes them look all the more like a group who cannot answer the biblical question of "who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time". Is there another biblical example of an appointed servant of God who needed a 100 years to get his own identity straight in his own mind? How many of those examples can we find in the pages of the bible? Their credibility evaporates immediately.

FWFranz

24

Do JWs really notice significant doctrinal change?

by keyser soze in

all of these threads about the 'new light' regarding the fds has got me wondering.

as ex-jws, we've trained ourselves to notice such things.

we tend to treat them as if they're of great significance, even convey a certain level of optimism that it will actually wake some up, make some think, even lead to some sort of mass revolution within the ranks.. do rank-and-file jws really see any significance, or is it just wishful thinking?

FWFranz

Hi Keyser Soze

I think that most JW's look forward with such great anticipation to "new light" that it doesn't matter what the WTS decides to feed them, no matter how illogical or implausible it might sound to a critical thinker. Remember, they are trained to look forward to "new light" as a revelation from God, so questioning it or doubting it is far from their minds. Also, strangely enough, the authority of the bible is meaningless to most witnesses. They will almost always defer to statements in the latest magazine as more important than any bible passage you show them. It is telling that their weekly study is a "Watchtower study" and not a bible study. It keeps a smile on the devils face.

FWFranz

12

After a couple of days pondering the "new light" FDS change . . .

by leaving_quietly in

so, i've had a chance to ponder this "new light" of the change of definition of fds now for a couple of days.

the initial reaction was of astonishment, and just plain anger, and i can see that i'm not alone in that.

however (assuming matt 24:45-47 is prophetic, parable or not):.

FWFranz

This supposed new teaching about the FDS is in some ways eerily similar to what Herbert W. Armstrong taught. Briefly, Armstrong taught that the "truth" of the bible had been almost completely lost for 1800 or so years commencing with an apostacy that started shortly after the death of the apostles. According to Armstrong, God would raise up and appoint an endtime prophet/teacher who would restore all the long lost truths of the scriptures. Now the WTS is saying that the appointment of the slave did not occur in 33 CE, and didn't actually happen until the beginning of the last days. They are in fact saying much the same thing as HWA did. That God had no real indentifiable earthly representatives for almost 1800 years. That only in the end times would there be anyone who could claim to now be directed by God. What does that say about Christ being the head of the Christian congregation during those 1800 years? How do they reconcile the scripture that says that Jesus would be with his true disciples to the end of the age? ( Matthew 28 :20) Thats a very hard question to answer for the GB, wouldn't you say.

FWFranz

91

Was the Watchtower Right?

by Christ Alone in

this question is for atheists and believers.

what teachings do you think the watchtower got right and why?

do you still think they are right about the trinity?

FWFranz

Hi Christ Alone I do believe that the WTS got 3 things correct and personally I think they are important doctrines. Their rejection of hell fire. Their teaching on soul sleep and the soul not being immortal. Their rejection of the trinity. There are other teachings that could be mentioned, but these 3 set them apart from many other Christian denominations. None of these doctrines where at all new when Russell came on the scene, but he chose to accept them as biblical truth.

FWFranz

75

The Society debunked the rumored new light on the F&DS in 1973

by Leolaia in

this is the summary of the rumored new light from the 2012 annual meeting, as posted by cedars.. the faithful and discreet slave was not appointed at pentecost 33ce, meaning that there has not been a continuous line of members of the slave class on the earth down through the ages.

the slave class was only appointed for the first time by christ in 1919.the faithful and discreet slave is a small group of anointed brothers during jesus presence serving at watchtower headquarters who are directly involved in the preparing and dispensing of spiritual food.

the individual members of the governing body are not the faithful and discreet slave.

FWFranz

Hi Leolala

If this change in doctrine/understanding is in fact true, it will require a lot of explaining, as it raises many questions and presents several obvious contradictions. I could comment on those that come to mind immediately, but that would be a rather lengthy post. Instead I will share some "insider" information that may have contributed to this change, if indeed these rumours are true. I have to be very careful about how many beans I spill as that might quickly reveal my own idenitiy which is not desired at this time. I have been in contact with an elderly anointed brother over the last few years. He is personally responsible for a lot of research that the Society uses. I can't say much more about him as that would reveal his identity. Anyway, a few years ago he was researching the supposed identity of the FDS through out history. We had a few discussions on this subject. His extensive research came up pretty much empty handed. With the criteria given him by the WTS as to what constituted genuine anointed Christians, mostly being what they believed doctrinally, he could find almost no one in recorded history who fit the criteria. Of course there where some who denied the trinity but maybe believed that the soul was immortal, or other similar situations. None could be found that embraced the beliefs necessary to consider them sufficiently enlightened by the holy spirit to be considered genuine anointed ones, according to the WTS. There may have been other brothers who where assigned this particular research project as well. I am assuming that they also came up short of identifiable believers that shared the list of WT doctrines that would clearly identify them as part of the FDS. So, maybe this is one of the reasons for a doctrinal change today at Bethel. I can't say for certain, but this may have contributed to this "new light".

Any thoughts on this line of reasoning?

FWFranz

70

Please Help! Wife want PROOF of Watchtower Deception

by Indian Larry in

please post any examples of clear cut watchtower deception.

my wife does not believe that the watchtower would purposely decieve her.

i need clearcut examples of deception of by the wtbts.

FWFranz

Hi Indian Larry I am not sure if you would equate this with outright deception, but I can tell you what opened up my eyes in a big way. This example will only be meaningful to someone who really believes the bible and one who would take the bibles words to be more meaningful than the words of the WTS. I first looked at this line of reasoning after reading Ray Franz's book, "Crisis of Conscience". Ray brought out an article from 1973 that clearly stated that the WTS considers itself as God's end time prophet. This is a fact that no JW will deny and is something that is universally acknowledged among them. Upon a deeper investigation of WT predictions it was painfully obvious that virtually every last time prediction they made had failed. This is evident from their earliest days right up until the latest "generation" fiasco. A real bible believing Christian has to ask themselves just one very important question. Do they REALLY believe that God would raise up His prophet in the last days and that this prophet would have a 100% failure record for all their predictions. Would this inspire even a single person to put faith in them as "chosen" and uniquely directed by almighty God. The one passage of scripture that completely and undeniable shows the WT to have failed the "prophet test" is in Deuteronomy chapter 18. Any honest hearted person who really wants the "truth about the truth" will respond to this.

20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or [ f ] who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ 21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord , if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.

I hope the scales fall from her eyes.

FWFranz

38

SAFE WAY to awaken, VERY POWERFUL. Even called Bethel elder on it.

by EndofMysteries in

i've found this topic and subject to be extremely powerful.

this is for those who still believe in god, realize the wt is apostate, and trying to help family.

(meaning i do not wish it to be used on trying to turn people athiest, i respect everyone's choices, i just believe and would hate my help to do what i feel is wrong) it might help fix things, or if you are still wondering how to awaken them without scaring them and being instantly shunned.

FWFranz

Hi EndofMysteries The misunderstanding of 1st Thessalonians chapter 4 has led the WT into teaching an untruth about the timing of the first ressurrection, that is for certain. But there are other truths revealed in that passage of scripture that also prove that the WTS's teaching on an invisible parousia that includes so called "annointed ones" remaining on the earth for a protracted period of time during this suppossed parousia is also false. This can be shown in their own copy of the The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scritpures. Their own marginal references tell a very dfferent tale than what has been published in the pages of the WT since the days of Bro. Russell. If you examine 1st Thessalonians 4 verse 17 in the Interlinear you will notice on the left hand side where there is a word for word translation. Here the WTS correctly ascribes the definition of the word "aema" ( Strongs, Number 260) as being " at the same time". As far as my own research goes, this is a commonly accepted definition of the word "aema" among Koine Greek scholars.

Conclusion. If those who are raised from the dead rise to meet Jesus in the clouds "at the same time" (as clearly stated in greek) with the living members of Christs brothers, then this teaches two doctrines that are very at odds with WT teaching. First off this would mean that at Christ's parousia or return that all of his body members would receive their reward at the same time and that they would be raised to meet Christ in the air simultaneously. This could not possibly be reconciled with a teaching that some began to be resurrected in 1918 ( 1878 in CT Russell's mind) and that others would remain on earth for nearly a 100 years after the begining of Jesus parousia! That would definitely be in sharp contrast to Pauls statement that this all happenened "at the same time"!

4:17 [ Greek Font Size: – / + | Toggle Font ] [ View in: BYZ / TR | Side-by-side | Greek Lexical Parser ]

Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the cloudsto meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

epeita hmeiv oi zwntev (5723) oi perileipomenoi (5742) ama sun autoiv arpaghsomeqa (5691) en nefelaiv eiv apanthsin tou kuriou eiv aera; kai outwv pantote sun kuriw esomeqa. (5704)

Secondly if the WT insists that there are still some of Christs brothers on earth, this would be proof that Jesus had not returned invisibly or otherwise! Simply because when Jesus does return one of the signs of his parousia will be indicated by the simultaneous removal of all his body members to meet him in the clouds. Therefore since the scriptures clearly teach that Jesus has NOT returned, and that there are absolutely no scriptures that clearly teach that Jesus would make an examination of all of Christendom's church's at any time, let alone in 1918, this nullifies the WTS's claim to be exclusively chosen by God.

FWFranz