are you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?
do you feel personally vindicated by it?
do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?
@ sir82 I'm struggling to think of any precedent of the WTS "happily" complying with anything that "worldly" governments have imposed upon them. Perhaps an example or 2 would help.
Simple answer to that one, as long as it is not in conflict with Bible principles (Acts 5:29) the WTS has ALWAYS happily complied with whatever "worldly" governments have "imposed" on them as per Romans 13:1.
I highly doubt that any rules that come about from this investigation will conflict with Bible principles.
sorry if this has already been discussed, but,...besides, of course, a black eye on the org, what can come of this royal commission hearing legally or criminally?
according to the rc's website:.
"the royal commission holds formal public hearings to hear evidence about child sexual abuse within institutions.
(Sorry, I know I have posted it several times, but it applies here too).
The purpose of the Royal Commission is to analyze and make a comprehensive report on how child abuse has been handled on the whole by various institutions ranging from religious and recreational establishments through to schools etc. in order to establish how best to prevent, and/or handle child abuse in the future. In their own words: "Drawing upon the experience of individuals and the investigation of systemic issues, we are required to make recommendations that will provide a just response for people who have been sexually abused and ensure institutions achieve best practice in protecting children in the future".
Read interim report:
The purpose of this particular investigation into Jehovah's Witnesses is not to single them out and punish them, but as with the previous investigations of other institutions (so far there have been 29 case studies) it is to identify a weakness and put in place an effective remedy, (just as with all the other institutions). The Australian government has obviously identified a great need as regards the handling of child molestation issues across the whole board. I am sure you are all aware that the problem of abuse has been going on since the beginning of civilization, globally affecting all societies, but only in the last 30 or so years has it begun to get addressed properly. The need for this report itself though highlights that finding a solution has not even reached the tip of the iceberg yet. And of course once found, no solution will be truly perfect.
Jehovah’s Witnesses are not unique, they are plagued by the same diseases, same worries, same societal issues as everyone else on this planet. This of course includes the societal disease of child molestation. A spiritual paradise does not ensure a trouble free life as all persons are affected by imperfection and the consequences of it. In the cases of child sexual abuse the factors are very complex for all establishments and societies and each case is unique and cannot be put into one basket. Even the fact that a child offender goes behind bars for a few years does not guarantee a permanent solution because the possibility exists that he will re-offend. ...
I have no doubts though that whatever the Australian Commission decides in the way of policies, recommendations and practices to protect children, Jehovah’s Witnesses will be more than happy to comply with them.
i cant wait for this to get bigger and bigger!!!
its sad that all of these people had such horrible things done to them, but now a bunch of crazy old perverts are going to pay for it!
The purpose of the Royal Commission is to analyze and make a comprehensive report on how child abuse has been handled on the whole by various institutions ranging from religious and recreational establishments through to schools etc. in order to establish how best to prevent, and/or handle child abuse in the future. In their own words: "Drawing upon the experience of individuals and the investigation of systemic issues, we are required to make recommendations that will provide a just response for people who have been sexually abused and ensure institutions achieve best practice in protecting children in the future".
Read interim report:
The purpose of this particular investigation into Jehovah's Witnesses is not to single them out and punish them, but as with the previous investigations of other institutions (so far there have been 29 case studies) it is to identify a weakness and put in place an effective remedy, (just as with all the other institutions). The Australian government has obviously identified a great need as regards the handling of child molestation issues across the whole board. I am sure you are all aware that the problem of abuse has been going on since the beginning of civilization, globally affecting all societies, but only in the last 30 or so years has it begun to get addressed properly. The need for this report itself though highlights that finding a solution has not even reached the tip of the iceberg yet. And of course once found, no solution will be truly perfect.
Jehovah’s Witnesses are not unique, they are plagued by the same diseases, same worries, same societal issues as everyone else on this planet. This of course includes the societal disease of child molestation. A spiritual paradise does not ensure a trouble free life as all persons are affected by imperfection and the consequences of it. In the cases of child sexual abuse the factors are very complex for all establishments and societies and each case is unique and cannot be put into one basket. Even the fact that a child offender goes behind bars for a few years does not guarantee a permanent solution because the possibility exists that he will re-offend. ...
I have no doubts though that whatever the Australian Commission decides in the way of policies, recommendations and practices to protect children, Jehovah’s Witnesses will be more than happy to comply with them.
the commission has the names of 1,006 alleged abusers within australian congregations since 1950. some will have died and others will already have been prosecuted but the branch did not report any of these allegations to police.. the terms of reference for the royal commission is more about redress for the victims but that can include criminal prosecution although they are more focused on financial compensation.. however, now that they have the names of 1,006 potential criminals there is some responsibility to see that they are dealt with criminally.
it appears to be in their authority to have cases followed through by referring them for further investigation.
this is clear because the commissioner has recently reported that to date, they have done so in 493 cases identified within the scope of their commission.
@ Listener
Yeah, I saw that part too. The good thing is there are transcripts available after each day as well...
are you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?
do you feel personally vindicated by it?
do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?
@ smiddy
The two witness rule is also in the Christian Greek scriptures: 1 Timothy 5:19, 2 Corinthians 13:1 and most importantly Matthew 18:16, uttered by Jesus himself.
In any case, the two witness rule obviously has no baring on any secular authority from investigating, this is merely for the Christian congregation. There is nothing preventing reporting to the elders and the police at the same time.
the commission has the names of 1,006 alleged abusers within australian congregations since 1950. some will have died and others will already have been prosecuted but the branch did not report any of these allegations to police.. the terms of reference for the royal commission is more about redress for the victims but that can include criminal prosecution although they are more focused on financial compensation.. however, now that they have the names of 1,006 potential criminals there is some responsibility to see that they are dealt with criminally.
it appears to be in their authority to have cases followed through by referring them for further investigation.
this is clear because the commissioner has recently reported that to date, they have done so in 493 cases identified within the scope of their commission.
@ Listener But as this is mainly what the RC is about, they will endeavour to come up with the most effective method of compensation without burdening the Government.
I tend to disagree with you there. It seems that the main reason for these investigations is to :
"identify
best practices and recommend the laws, policies, practices and systems that
will effectively prevent or, where it occurs, respond to the sexual abuse of
children in institutions."
Its true, I haven't read the whole interim report yet, but that is what it seems.....
Here is the report for anyone who is interested:
are you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?
do you feel personally vindicated by it?
do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?
The purpose of the Royal Commission is to analyze and make a comprehensive report on how child abuse has been handled on the whole by various institutions ranging from religious and recreational establishments through to schools etc. in order to establish how best to prevent, and/or handle child abuse in the future. In their own words: "Drawing upon the experience of individuals and the investigation of systemic issues, we are required to make recommendations that will provide a just response for people who have been sexually abused and ensure institutions achieve best practice in protecting children in the future".
The purpose of this particular investigation into Jehovah's Witnesses is not to single them out and punish them, but as with the previous investigations of other institutions (so far there have been 29 case studies) it is to identify a weakness and put in place an effective remedy, (just as with all the other institutions). The Australian government has obviously identified a great need as regards the handling of child molestation issues across the whole board. I am sure you are all aware that the problem of abuse has been going on since the beginning of civilization, globally affecting all societies, but only in the last 30 or so years has it begun to get addressed properly. The need for this report itself though highlights that finding a solution has not even reached the tip of the iceberg yet. And of course once found, no solution will be truly perfect.
Jehovah’s Witnesses are not unique, they are plagued by the same diseases, same worries, same societal issues as everyone else on this planet. This of course includes the societal disease of child molestation. A spiritual paradise does not ensure a trouble free life as all persons are affected by imperfection and the consequences of it. In the cases of child sexual abuse the factors are very complex for all establishments and societies and each case is unique and cannot be put into one basket. Even the fact that a child offender goes behind bars for a few years does not guarantee a permanent solution because the possibility exists that he will re-offend. ...
I have no doubts though that whatever the Australian Commission decides in the way of policies, recommendations and practices to protect children, Jehovah’s Witnesses will be more than happy to comply with them.
the commission has the names of 1,006 alleged abusers within australian congregations since 1950. some will have died and others will already have been prosecuted but the branch did not report any of these allegations to police.. the terms of reference for the royal commission is more about redress for the victims but that can include criminal prosecution although they are more focused on financial compensation.. however, now that they have the names of 1,006 potential criminals there is some responsibility to see that they are dealt with criminally.
it appears to be in their authority to have cases followed through by referring them for further investigation.
this is clear because the commissioner has recently reported that to date, they have done so in 493 cases identified within the scope of their commission.
The purpose of the Royal Commission is to analyze and make a comprehensive report on how child abuse has been handled on the whole by various institutions ranging from religious and recreational establishments through to schools etc. in order to establish how best to prevent, and/or handle child abuse in the future. In their own words: "Drawing upon the experience of individuals and the investigation of systemic issues, we are required to make recommendations that will provide a just response for people who have been sexually abused and ensure institutions achieve best practice in protecting children in the future".
The purpose of this particular investigation into Jehovah's Witnesses is not to single them out and punish them, but as with the previous investigations of other institutions (so far there have been 29 case studies) it is to identify a weakness and put in place an effective remedy, (just as with all the other institutions). The Australian government has obviously identified a great need as regards the handling of child molestation issues across the whole board. I am sure you are all aware that the problem of abuse has been going on since the beginning of civilization, globally affecting all societies, but only in the last 30 or so years has it begun to get addressed properly. The need for this report itself though highlights that finding a solution has not even reached the tip of the iceberg yet. And of course once found, no solution will be truly perfect.
Jehovah’s Witnesses are not unique, they are plagued by the same diseases, same worries, same societal issues as everyone else on this planet. This of course includes the societal disease of child molestation. A spiritual paradise does not ensure a trouble free life as all persons are affected by imperfection and the consequences of it. In the cases of child sexual abuse the factors are very complex for all establishments and societies and each case is unique and cannot be put into one basket. Even the fact that a child offender goes behind bars for a few years does not guarantee a permanent solution because the possibility exists that he will re-offend. ...
I have no doubts though that whatever the Australian Commission decides in the way of policies, recommendations and practices to protect children, Jehovah’s Witnesses will be more than happy to comply with them.
soliciting any and all opinions.
as some of you may know, wife is full in pioneer.
my fade has gone from us fighting.
i noticed that anthony morris iii just said on the broadcast: "while we cannot control everything that an individual might say, it is clear that over the decades protecting children from abuse is a top priority for this organization.".
that, in my opinion, is a direct response to the richard ashe "spiritual protection not physical protection" deposition.. here's a video putting the two statements side by side.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgevpuyn7gy.
Just a few observation from inside a KH
My husband was attendant one meeting (he is neither a min servant nor elder) and a family came in a little late, they don't come very often because the husband travels a lot for work. Anyway, one of her little boys (about 3) was acting up a bit and making a lot of noise. My husband felt bad telling the mom to take her child outside so in all innocence he offered to take her little boy into the foyer to let him run around a bit, and the mother in all innocence smiled and said yes sure. My husband was out there barely a second when another bother attending (min servant) went in there and told my husband it’s not a good idea, so my husband came back in and handed the child (who had stopped crying in the meantime) back to its mother. Neither of us thought anything of it until later, when it dawned on us that this is possibly because of the pedophilia issue. The brother was trying to protect my husband from possible accusation, and protect the child from possible molestation (by my husband, lol). Another instance was when a few years ago a sister wanted her eldest teenage son to study with one of her friends (pioneer elder) as she thought it was better than with his dad, the pioneer elder respectfully declined and said it was hers or her husband’s responsibility. I didn’t think anything much of it either, just thought things have evidently changed since I had friends who used to study (years ago) with others apart from their family members. Then it dawned on me this was again a protection for that boy, and for the pioneer elder, giving no room for accusation (by anybody). Evidently the org. is putting strict practical measures into place to prevent any child from being molested. I spoke a little about it with one elder friend and he confirmed that elders and ministerial servants are being trained to observe (as in they themselves) and make others follow a certain code of conduct when it comes to children and minors. I would say that the environment is being made extremely difficult for any pedophile to “thrive” in a congregation these days.
