Posts by Nitty-Gritty

28

The Royal Commission and Watchtower - A game changer

by Hidden-Window in

jw
friends

i had finished watching all the videos on the royal commission's investigation of jehovah's witnesses (yes, i know more videos are being released).

i am still processing the information of everything that has emerged.

i do not plan to cover it all here, but i would like to point out that it is patently obvious that some of the wt representatives provided misleading information.

Nitty-Gritty

re: Corporal Punishment Although it is not done so often now, it is still recommended.

I have never seen it recommended. The way I have seen it put is that it depends on the child. Some children are timid and just a firm word suffices, some other children may need "stronger" reminders. If slapping my child works and he will not cross the road without me, then I would rather take that option than lose him to a car accident because I was too "sparing". This should not even have to be explained as it is common sense. No one here is insinuating beating a child! O.K, well perhaps this IS what Mr. Stewart had in mind, and Geoffrey Jackson understood and replied accordingly; No, JWs do not believe nor recommend beating children.

190

Geoffrey Jackson - Royal Commission Live Hearing Now!

by LostinJapan in

.

https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.

Nitty-Gritty

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20150801/deborah-mother-in-israel/#?insight[search_id]=f6665dec-47b4-4f78-a789-c86aaad208a6&insight[search_result_index]=3

37

Australian Branch Stats?

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

i'm working on some statistical analysis of child abuse data made public by the royal commission.

while i'm working on this, can someone here do me a favor and look up the peak publisher figures reported by watchtower for the australian branch for each of the years from 2005 through 2014?

my thanks in advance.

Nitty-Gritty

"Think about that the next time you attend an assembly and see dozens of kids running around without parental supervision".

Not if they pay attention and do as they are advised at every assembly and convention: "Parents, keep your children with you at all times".

44

Question for those still attending...is anyone talking?

by ToesUp in

jw
friends

we haven't been to a meeting or jw event in several years.

we have been following the rc closely.

it is fascinating!

Nitty-Gritty

I am JW and I listened to all the days of the live streaming videos on the RC website. JW friends in Australia tell me they are sad with the whole situation and hope our policies improve where they need to.

20

An Obvious Contradiction Mr Stewart is Missing

by cofty in

all jws on the stand have stuck to the same line that they have no problem with cooperating with mandatory reporting when state law requires it.. if the law does not require it then bible principles absolutely prevent them from taking away rights of the victim to report abuse to the police or not.. we have already heard from a jw rep a couple of days ago who proudly asserted that when the law conflicts with bible principle they will always obey the bible and quoted acts 5:29 "we must obey god rather than men".. please join the dots!.

Nitty-Gritty

@ Marvin Shilmer

The question is, is the law of mandatory reporting against scripture? I don't think so. Now if the elders took it upon themselves to report without the law there, then they would be infringing on the rights of the family.

To get around that the elders could warn the congregants that any disclosure of child molestation will be reported to the police (as per what what the RC wants) and thus give the families the right to disclose to the elders or not. It already works this way with councilors as I mentioned. Of course this could bring with it many problems. I wonder if the RC has fully thought that one out??

20

An Obvious Contradiction Mr Stewart is Missing

by cofty in

all jws on the stand have stuck to the same line that they have no problem with cooperating with mandatory reporting when state law requires it.. if the law does not require it then bible principles absolutely prevent them from taking away rights of the victim to report abuse to the police or not.. we have already heard from a jw rep a couple of days ago who proudly asserted that when the law conflicts with bible principle they will always obey the bible and quoted acts 5:29 "we must obey god rather than men".. please join the dots!.

Nitty-Gritty

I don't see a conflict with the Bible, reporting an abuse to the police even if the family do not wish it disclosed. I reckon the new instructions to elders in Australia will be that if allegations are brought to their attention they will have to report it to the police....in which case they will also have to warn the congregation of this policy. Pretty much this is the case with disclosing to a trained professional, they have to warn the client/patient/victim that if they disclose they have been sexually molested, the counselor will have to tell the police, whether they like it or not. In any case, I don't see why governments cannot implement mandatory reporting in every country, in which case there would be no question whether the elders should report or not report. Simple really.

104

Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?

by Wasanelder Once in

are you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?

do you feel personally vindicated by it?

do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?

Nitty-Gritty

JW facs

"It should not be relevant if it was as good as other churches at the time, since the religion touts being spirit directed".

Being spirit directed is one thing, but actually following the direction of the spirit is another.

Your strong defence is indication that internally you know the Governing Body are just men and their rules are man made, all of which is evidence that you are following just another religion.

I do believe the GB are just men, to believe anything else would be folly. But their rules are not man made (that's if you believe the Bible is not from man of course).

104

Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?

by Wasanelder Once in

are you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?

do you feel personally vindicated by it?

do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?

Nitty-Gritty

As posted by konceptual99

I am just wondering however if there are situations that have to come to light through places like this site where people have first hand experience of being disfellowshipped for going to the authorities about child abuse.

and

Are there reasons why the cases of unreported abuse you know about remain unreported? Are you or others you know in a position to support the victims in making a report now?

I would be interested in having answers to this as well.

47

A few facts to ponder

by Nitty-Gritty in

i have been in correspondence recently with silentambs and a few interesting things have been highlighted.

some of you may know, that bill bowen has twice tried to get the fbi involved in investigating child molestation issues in the jws org.

this is what he said to me, i quote: we have reported to the fbi on two occasions and were rebuffed due to them not wishing to get involved with a religion.

Nitty-Gritty

Haha, very funny @azor. The problem is I've go too much time on my hands.

47

A few facts to ponder

by Nitty-Gritty in

i have been in correspondence recently with silentambs and a few interesting things have been highlighted.

some of you may know, that bill bowen has twice tried to get the fbi involved in investigating child molestation issues in the jws org.

this is what he said to me, i quote: we have reported to the fbi on two occasions and were rebuffed due to them not wishing to get involved with a religion.

Nitty-Gritty

@searcher

Nitty Gritty - If your wife/sister/daughter was raped by a fellow J.W., would you consult the elders first, or would you report it to the police?

Interested to see what your reasoning is, compared to those elders in Australia - and elswhere.

Well it can't be a wife, as I occupy that role. If it was my sister I would encourage her to go to the police, but I would respect her decision whether to go or not. I could not force her. But she would be obliged to go to the elders to report the sin/crime of a fellow believer. If she didn't go I would report it to the elders for her. If it was my daughter, and she was a minor, I would not need to consult with anyone. I would report the person to the elders and the police immediately, and not necessarily in that order.