Posts by Nitty-Gritty

23

Active JW's: If asked, can you explain/defend this belief?

by The Fall Guy in

as all jw's and awakened ex-jw's know, the very existence of the religion is dependent on people's belief that the "holy trinity" of the wtbts, the ccojw, and the governing body (aka the organization) were personally selected by god/christ.. 1) mr. rutherford claimed that this divine choosing occurred circa 1919, and that all anointed members were personally chosen by god/christ to be the faithful slave.

2) in 2013 this long-held, "profound scriptural truth" was discarded by apostates in brooklyn (the present-day governing body) when they personally decided that only gb members were chosen by god/christ to be the faithful slave.

(wt july 2013, p.22, par.

Nitty-Gritty

@ The Fall Guy

@ Nitty Gritty - Par. 2 says this - "It is vital that we recognize the faithful slave. Our spiritual health and our relationship with God depend on this channel."

- And the scripture quoted to support that idea was Matt 4:4 "....‘Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every word that comes from Jehovah’s mouth.’ meaning the Bible. And the other is John 17:3- Get to know God....again through the Bible.

As far as I know, rarely did God instruct anyone personally, it was always through either an angel, a prophet, or some other person. The Bible is how God speaks to humans now. The FDS is supposed to "feed" by means of the Bible, not invent anything new separate from the Bible. As long as the Bible is at the core of that food then this is sufficient. If someone doesn't agree with how the FDS interpret the Bible, and they prefer the interpretation of some other religion, then that is their choice to make of course.

"Christians were instructed to test the teachings they were being given, (1 John 4:1) but as we both know, as an active JW, cannot question or disagree with anything the literature says - due to fear of the consequences".

Yes. This is the prerogative of everyone and anyone who studies the Bible with anyone, including with JWs. Their subsequent baptism (into any religion) confirms that the person is in agreement with those teachings. If they have agreed without testing the teachings then they have not listened to those instructions have they? Logically, the time for questioning is before, not after commitment. For whatever religion. So if down the road they suddenly find for whatever reason they no longer agree with those teachings why bother questioning at that point? With JWs, the logical option is to quit associating with the congregation. I don't know why folks like you find it so hard. If I don't like a club I leave the club. There are plenty of "faders" who still hang out with family and close friends but no longer go to meetings.

23

Active JW's: If asked, can you explain/defend this belief?

by The Fall Guy in

as all jw's and awakened ex-jw's know, the very existence of the religion is dependent on people's belief that the "holy trinity" of the wtbts, the ccojw, and the governing body (aka the organization) were personally selected by god/christ.. 1) mr. rutherford claimed that this divine choosing occurred circa 1919, and that all anointed members were personally chosen by god/christ to be the faithful slave.

2) in 2013 this long-held, "profound scriptural truth" was discarded by apostates in brooklyn (the present-day governing body) when they personally decided that only gb members were chosen by god/christ to be the faithful slave.

(wt july 2013, p.22, par.

Nitty-Gritty

"Easy. Paul could do miracles to give prove:

(Acts 14:8-11) 8 Now in Lysʹtra there was a man sitting down whose feet were crippled. He was lame from birth and had never walked. 9 This man was listening to Paul as he was speaking. Paul, looking intently at him and seeing that he had faith to be made well, 10 said with a loud voice: “Stand up on your feet.” So the man leaped up and began walking. 11 When the crowds saw what Paul had done, they cried out in the Lyc·a·oʹni·an language: “The gods have become like humans and have come down to us!”

That hardly proved that Paul was hand picked by Jesus. The Lycaonians were pagan and believed in many gods. They thought Paul and company were gods.They called Barnabas Zeus, and Paul Hermes. And even when Paul explained who he was they still tried to sacrifice to him. Obviously nothing that Paul said convinced them he was not Hermes.

Which proves my point; you are going to believe what you want to believe, regardless of evidence. No matter how many miracles Jesus performed and how many prophecies regarding himself he fulfilled, people still did not believe he was the messiah.

23

Active JW's: If asked, can you explain/defend this belief?

by The Fall Guy in

as all jw's and awakened ex-jw's know, the very existence of the religion is dependent on people's belief that the "holy trinity" of the wtbts, the ccojw, and the governing body (aka the organization) were personally selected by god/christ.. 1) mr. rutherford claimed that this divine choosing occurred circa 1919, and that all anointed members were personally chosen by god/christ to be the faithful slave.

2) in 2013 this long-held, "profound scriptural truth" was discarded by apostates in brooklyn (the present-day governing body) when they personally decided that only gb members were chosen by god/christ to be the faithful slave.

(wt july 2013, p.22, par.

Nitty-Gritty

Question: Apart from these men's (conflicting) claims, is there a shred of Biblical evidence to support either of these claims and the timing, and to justify your "faith" in this self-appointed hierarchy?

I thought the WT you quote showed Biblical evidence to support these claims. As for justifying ones faith in this; when it comes down to it, it's a personal thing, you either find the evidence sufficiently believable or you don't.

17

November broadcast makes thier strategy clear.

by Crazyguy in

thier talk at this summers district conventions about shunning faders was a bit unclear and many said it was pointing out that only jws were to shun wrongdoers not specifically faders.

this new broadcast makes it now obvious that those who leave the meetings have left jehovah so therefore they are to be shunned as a form of discipline.

there can be no mistake that they do not want any of thier cult members associating with faders or those that have left the cult.

Nitty-Gritty

Levy was disfellowshipped because it was announced that he was no longer one of JWs (20:48). Further he was living some kind of lifestyle which was incompatible with Bible principles, (22:8) which means he wasn't just a fader, but was doing something actively wrong (immorality etc.)

49

Warning: Watchtower computer dept. registers accounts on Ex-JW sites, coerces people to divulge their personal details

by WTS Archive in

jw
friends

we had a bad experience with watchtower trying to infiltrate our forums.

let this story be a warning for all you guys here.

if you value your privacy do not ever send your real contact details to anyone, even if you trust them (because their accounts could be hacked or accessed by their relatives - and yes, this happened to people i know several times already).

Nitty-Gritty

Simon: If they were going to do it, I also doubt they would be so stupid as to use their own network as the source. It would be incredibly clumsy. It is far more likely to just be some over eager zealot thinking they are doing the right thing and in doing so, doing exactly the wrong thing.

Precisely!

49

Warning: Watchtower computer dept. registers accounts on Ex-JW sites, coerces people to divulge their personal details

by WTS Archive in

jw
friends

we had a bad experience with watchtower trying to infiltrate our forums.

let this story be a warning for all you guys here.

if you value your privacy do not ever send your real contact details to anyone, even if you trust them (because their accounts could be hacked or accessed by their relatives - and yes, this happened to people i know several times already).

Nitty-Gritty

Correct freemindfade. It's not a top down sanctioned thing. Just as there are "apostates" in the org, who leak info,(even high up - eg. circuit overseers) there are "lone wolves" who take it upon themselves to "spy" on apostate websites and harass people.

62

Other Religions use the Name JEHOVAH too

by UnDisfellowshipped in

are jehovah's witnesses really the only religion that promotes and preaches the name of jehovah?.

jw's are always claiming that they are the only religion that preaches and uses the name jehovah, and that is why only they will be saved.

for example, look at this quote from the watchtower:.

Nitty-Gritty

In all these websites you posted, Jehovah is either used in the title of the off shoot of these religions or in a song. These websites do not "make known the name of God" they do not promote it nor preach it. In fact one of the mission statements is: “to Exalt the Savior, to Evangelize the Lost, to Strengthen society through mission outreach, and to Edify the saints through the preaching and teaching of God's word until we all become unified in the faith and the knowledge of Jesus Christ our Savior, as prescribed by God in the Holy Scripture.” As opposed to the mission statement in part of JWs “The Bible says: “May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth.” (Psalm 83:18) Therefore, we worship only Jehovah God, and as his Witnesses, we endeavor to make known his personal name.—Isaiah 43:10-12.”

Have any of you actually read or listened to any of those websites?? And then compared them to jw.org? There is no comparison. One guy apparently thinks that singing in a choir is “preaching and teaching God’s word” and that’s just one example. No mention of Jehovah of course, it’s all about Jesus. And they pray to Jesus.

So no, JWs are still the only ones who “Preach and teach and use God’s name” to the full extent possible.

14

I have to get this off my chest...cult equals guilible

by Sour Grapes in

two weeks ago while visiting a friend in north carolina, i agreed to go with him to the sunday public talk.

the public talk was about how the witnesses have the direction of angels while going in service.

the speaker told some real doozies and you could hear the "oohs and ahhs" from the audience.

Nitty-Gritty

Actually, you summed up the answer without even realizing: "So in the talk several people, because of the hand of God, became Bible studies and in the new stories I mentioned 26 Witnessed died serving God. You tell me if you believe in angelic direction".

Angelic guidance and/or protection has never been about "temporary life" but about "everlasting life".

30

Has anyone noticed the JW movies are trying to normalise their lifestyle?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

having watched the prodigal son returns movie produced by the organization and a recent mini-clip of a brother in london who is shown jogging and doing normal everyday things while wanting to "reach out" it occurred to me that the organization is trying to normalize their bizarre lifestyle and beliefs for the benefit of non-witnesses.. what do i mean by normalization?

they try to make the witnesses look like just another christian denomination who are reasonable while their members live and enjoy normal lives that appear to be within the mainstream.. they do this by not mentioning anything to do with higher education, armageddon or the urgency of the end of the world nor is their discussion or mention of the blood issue.

these are things mentioned often at kingdom halls and in study articles.. watching the prodigal son returns, the family appears to live a normal life, going to meetings and studying.

Nitty-Gritty

@ toesup,

I think the "normal" things under discussion here were those that were evident in the movies. Not the kind of stuff you described.

@truthseeker You may not realize this, but these movies are not made up, they are actually based on real life events and real experiences of JWs. Zach and the other girl (I forget her name) are sitting together at the KH because they are actually married (they eloped) and when Zach and Liz talk, they are not alone, they are in a coffee shop. When Liz says she wants to take a few classes, that does not mean what you think, she minimizes going into detail because this was not the focus of that particular setting, and in America, you can take classes online, in your own time, at home.... especially for certificate programs.

And if I may mention again, these movies are not for the general public, they are for JWs, therefor any suggested intention to "mislead" people on the outside, is not applicable.

18

Latest on Greg Stafford

by Nitty-Gritty in

for all those who know who greg stafford is/was.

the former "apostate/apologist and author of three dissertations and other books, is on page 2 of the march 2016 meeting work book.

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/jw-meeting-workbook/march-2016-mwb/meeting-schedule-mar7-13/welcome-memorial-guests/.

Nitty-Gritty

No. I have it on good authority that it is him.