I think you're right. The organization keeps the thread of disfellowshipping held over its members for one false step. Oh, they say that you're only DF'd if you're unrepentant, but that most certainly is not what the organization teaches elders. If a person commits multiple sins or hides sins over a period of time, there is NO CHOICE but to DF, according to the organization. This is true even if the person comes forward of his own free will and confesses due to a guilty conscience with a desire to make things right with God. Repentance in that case has NOTHING to do with it.
leaving_quietly
JoinedPosts by leaving_quietly
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Jacked up Religion!!! God's word for us through Jeremiah!!!
by DATA-DOG ini slept horribly last night because of stress.
it's been a while since i had insomnia, but the meetings are slowly causing that disorder to make a comeback.
the " bible " study was one of the most messed up things that i have heard in a long time.
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Jacked up Religion!!! God's word for us through Jeremiah!!!
by DATA-DOG ini slept horribly last night because of stress.
it's been a while since i had insomnia, but the meetings are slowly causing that disorder to make a comeback.
the " bible " study was one of the most messed up things that i have heard in a long time.
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leaving_quietly
I felt the same way. I shook my head at a couple of sentences on at box on page 73:
In relation to a disfellowshipped one:
"In the world, where there is "no law" from Jehovah, he probably feels a great sense of loss."
Same paragraph:
"You must certainly agree, though, that obeying Jehovah and never coming to be without law is much to be preferred."
(Underlining mine).... detected part of the cult mentality here... we are told what to think.
Another thought that occurred to me was in paragraph 10, under the subjeading "Jehovah's Forgiveness - Freely Given But Not Automatic":
"Still, he does not pardon sins automatically. Why not? Because sin is repugnant to Jehovah (Isa. 59:2) Therefore, he wants to be sure that we are worthy of his forgiveness."
NOT ONE MENTION OF CHRIST'S RANSOM THAT IS FOR FORGIVENESS OF SINS!!!!! (Col 1:13,14)
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How to embed Youtube videos
by leaving_quietly init's simple, once you know how.. paste your youtube link into the editor.. highlight the entire link, then click the chain icon (in the middle, just below "font family").
paste the link into the link url field, then click insert.
this turns the the link into a clickable link.
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leaving_quietly
It's simple, once you know how.
Paste your youtube link into the editor.
Highlight the entire link, then click the chain icon (in the middle, just below "Font family")
Paste the link into the Link URL field, then click Insert. This turns the the link into a clickable link. The forum will automatically convert this into an embedded video after you save your post.
NOTE:The link has to contain youtube.com/watch in it to be converted properly.
Example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyTUSe99z6o
Now, an embedded video:
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How does the WTS mine quotes for their "scholarly inspired" articles ?
by mP inive seen a few threads discussing misquotations, including the quote about roman times taken from a book of fiction.
apologies but i cant recall the author or the book mentioned but im sure others will know what im talking about .. so how many books do they read to find these quotes ?
they must b e buying a lot of apostate books just to find a worthy quote.
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leaving_quietly
It is becoming increasingly rare for them to specify where exactly a quote comes from. If they do, it is usually something that has been cited and quoted in earlier versions of their own "literature".
Ah, but the beauty of Google is that you can enter in a phrase in quotes and one can find the source rather quickly. Within minutes, if not seconds. Many older books are available through online archives, too. I do this very often because I cannot trust that any source is quoted properly, in its entirety, or within context. If I see elipses, I get very, very suspicious. If I don't see a source, I get very, very suspicous. If I DO see a source, I flag it to look up.
And, now, to throw in one more, as we have recently seen, they reuse quotes from older publications. So, using the Watchtower Library, it's easy enough to search for a phrase, just like in Google, and find out where they've used it before.
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Assembly Talks... Are these assigned based on the thickness of the envelope?
by Calebs Airplane infrom talking to several fading jws over the years, it really does appear that assembly talk assignments are usually given to those pos who consistently hand over the thickest envelopes to the co at the end of his week-long visits.
if the envelope was too thin (or there was no enevelope at all), chances are that no one in that congo would get an assemby talk assighnment.
also, if the co and his wife were treated well or taken to expensive restaurants during their visit, that apparently increased the po's chances of getting an assembly talk assignment.
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leaving_quietly
Grading is a relatively new process. Before that, the C.O. had a list of brothers he used. In our circuit, it was always the same prominent ones who gave parts until one courageous C.O. came along and said he would make his own list. Finally, different speakers! But, alas, that C.O. has come and gone and we're back to the original where the same prominent brothers are being used over and over and over. I don't think the grading system is working all that well. As for money being part of it, perhaps that's true. I could even see that there was a whole lot of brown-nosing going on... not necessarily money, per se, but whatever these men could do to get on the C.O.'s good side. I never played that game. I have given a couple of Circuit Assembly parts, but it was certainly not because I brown-nosed. I did everything I could to avoid the C.O. because I never thought it was right to do that and I never wanted to be perceived as a prominent one (aka brown-noser).
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Possibly heard a Conscious Class public talk.
by lostinnj83 ini can't be certain but i found yesterdays public talk to be interesting.
it was on salvation.
the speaker read many scriptures from the bible and didn't mention anything about the organization being necessary for salvation, just jehovah and jesus.. i actually walked out feeling like i had learned something.. perhaps, he wasn't of the conscious class but in the very least he gave a nice non brainwashed message.. does anyone else think they have heard a conscious class talk given from the platform?.
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leaving_quietly
We had a prominent (DC-level speaker) recently give the public talk entitled, "Serving with Jehovah's Unified Organization". I thought sure it would be all about "the organization". But, no. It was actually a really cool talk about the heavenly organization, and not one peep about anointed, 144000, FDS or GB. I wondered at that. Would love to get my hands on that outline.
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Yesterday's WT Study par 17
by leaving_quietly ini marked down "research" next to this paragraph w13 1/15 p.11 par.
17), and have yet to do so fully.. "modern christians held in nazi concentration camps with possible death facing them were given repeated opportunities to gain their freedom by signing a declaration renouncing jehovah.".
was the declaration to renounce jehovah?
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leaving_quietly
Thanks, wasblind and Caminante.
Unbelievable. (no, no really anymore)
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Yesterday's WT Study par 17
by leaving_quietly ini marked down "research" next to this paragraph w13 1/15 p.11 par.
17), and have yet to do so fully.. "modern christians held in nazi concentration camps with possible death facing them were given repeated opportunities to gain their freedom by signing a declaration renouncing jehovah.".
was the declaration to renounce jehovah?
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leaving_quietly
I marked down "research" next to this paragraph w13 1/15 p.11 par. 17), and have yet to do so fully.
"Modern Christians held in Nazi concentration camps with possible death facing them were given repeated opportunities to gain their freedom by signing a declaration renouncing Jehovah."
Was the declaration to renounce Jehovah? I ask because there's a big difference between renouncing one's religion and renouncing Jehovah (a sticking point that we here know all too well.) I thought I had once seen a photo of this declaration, so I'm going to try to find it later. However....
w07 9/1 p. 10: "The SS guards made me an offer. I could be released from the camp and even become an officer in the Nazi army on one condition. “You must renounce the Bible Students’ ideas, which are hostile to the Third Reich.” No other prisoners received a comparable offer. Only Jehovah’s Witnesses were given the opportunity to escape the camps." (A life story)
w06 4/1 p. 23 par. 10: "For example, in the Buchenwald concentration camp of Nazi Germany, Witnesses who refused to renounce their faith were required to sign the following printed statement: “I am still a committed Bible Student and will never break the oath I have sworn to Jehovah."
w00 4/1 p. 19 par. 5: "Thousands were thrown into concentration camps because they refused to renounce their faith."
w97 4/15 p. 16 par. 9: "The courage the vast majority displayed in refusing [to renounce their religion],..."
w83 5/1 p. 14 par. 9: "From the time of arrest and repeatedly throughout the internment of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Nazi concentration camps, efforts were made to force them to renounce Jehovah and refuse to have any further contact with his people."
w76 2/15 p. 115 par. 9: "What about the modern examples of those that have remained friends with God? Wouldn’t you like to imitate the loyalty and endurance of your brothers who have withstood the brunt of dictatorships like Hitler’s Nazi regime or the Communist types, because they would not renounce their friendship with Jehovah?"
w72 3/1 p. 144 par. 17: "Just as previously when the Witnesses were persecuted under the Nazi regime, Jehovah’s witnesses are suffering similarly on the other side of the Iron Curtain, where the Communists have employed severe persecution to break their integrity. In many instances those endeavoring to maintain faithfulness are brought before fellow-worker courts and threatened with loss of job, allotment, home, pension, and so forth, if they do not publicly renounce their religion."
w64 12/15 p. 746 par. 27: "They were thrown into prisons and the horrible concentration camps for refusing to renounce God’s kingdom and to worship the Nazi State."
w57 5/15 p. 310 par. 18: "But right knowledge does stir those who have it to tell it out to others, to stand firm against persecution and even to face death rather than renounce their faith, as many of Jehovah’s witnesses have done under the violent Nazi and Communist persecutions, where even leaders of other religions capitulated!"
w54 12/1 p. 724-725 par. 17: "It is a familiar story about the fight for freedom fought by Jehovah’s witnesses to preach in Nazi- and Fascist-dominated lands from 1933 to 1945. Thousands were thrown into the concentration camps. Many were tortured and killed. Countless numbers died because of their loyalty to Jehovah God. They could have lived had they chosen to renounce the name of Jehovah God."
Did the declaration ask them to renounce both their faith AND Jehovah? If anyone knows where I can find a copy of that declaration, it would be helpful putting this to rest.
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The first Kingdom Hall to be damaged by a meteorite?
by cedars inmeteorite explodes over russiamarch 4, 2013 | russia.
on february 15, 2013, a meteorite exploded over the southern ural mountain region of chelyabinsk, russia, injuring over a thousand, damaging buildings, and producing shock waves that blew out windows in many homes.
local witness elders quickly mobilized to contact all of the jehovahs witnesses in the affected area.
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leaving_quietly
Wouldn't it be funny if it was the only religious building damaged?
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"Angel of light" revisited
by leaving_quietly inwe're familiar with 2 cor 11:14: "and no wonder, for satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light.".
this scripture came up in a talk today.
now that i'm in the habit of looking at surrounding verses for context, my first question was: "what was paul saying "no wonder" to?".
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leaving_quietly
We're familiar with 2 Cor 11:14: "And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light."
This scripture came up in a talk today. Now that I'm in the habit of looking at surrounding verses for context, my first question was: "what was Paul saying "no wonder" to?"
2 Cor 11:12-15: "Now what I am doing I will still do, that I may cut off the pretext from those who are wanting a pretext for being found equal to us in the office of which they boast. 13?For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14?And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. 15?It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. But their end shall be according to their works."
I almost laughted out loud when I read this during the meeting.