Posts by leaving

46

My sister died

by poppers in

just got word that my sister died.

she had surgery for heart valve replacement about 5 weeks ago, and when they opened her up for it they found cancer.

we had an extra special relationship since i was her "birthday present" when she turned 10 in 1951. this is my second sibling to die of cancer in 14 months..

Eph 1:1 - An example of eisegesis

by leaving_quietly in

eisegesis (formed from the greek preposition ?

"into" and the ending from the english word exegesis, which in turn is derived from ??

"to lead out") is the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that it introduces one's own presuppositions, agendas, or biases into and onto the text.

leaving_quietly

So that text should really say something like:

" Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God’s will, to those who are holy and faithful in Christ Jesus." ?

Island Man, if I were paraphrasing it, this would probably be the closest, yes. It seems to be the correct intent of the greeting.

12

Eph 1:1 - An example of eisegesis

by leaving_quietly in

eisegesis (formed from the greek preposition ?

"into" and the ending from the english word exegesis, which in turn is derived from ??

"to lead out") is the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that it introduces one's own presuppositions, agendas, or biases into and onto the text.

leaving_quietly

To my knowledge, the WTS has never used Eph. 1:1 to support the idea of 2 groups. If you have a citation demonstrating it, I'd like to see it.

No, they have not used this one to support it. I did research that before I posted, but one can see how easy it would have been in the old NWT to attempt to. I was surprised to see it this morning when doing other research using the CD Library. I was happy to see it was properly corrected in the revised version.

1

Matt 28:19, 20 - a command to ALL Christians?

by leaving_quietly in

we know what matt 28:19,20 says, as jws use this to beat the rank and file over the head with to say that preaching is a command.

"go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things i have commanded you.

i am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.".

leaving_quietly

w68 8/15 p. 511-512:

Why did the apostle Paul say, as recorded at 1 Corinthians 1:17, that Christ dispatched him “not to go baptizing”? He did baptize believers, did he not?—G.Q., U.S.A.

In the midst of his comments about a problem with divisions existing in the Corinthian congregation, the apostle Paul wrote: “For Christ dispatched me, not to go baptizing, but to go declaring the good news, not with wisdom of speech, that the torture stake of the Christ should not be made useless.”—1 Cor. 1:17.

We can be certain that Paul was well aware of Jesus’ command to make disciples and to baptize them. (Matt. 28:19, 20) And Paul traveled widely, making disciples and teaching people to observe all the things Jesus commanded. He did not minimize the importance of baptism, but recommended it.—Acts 19:1-5.

The statement in 1 Corinthians 1:17 must be understood in context. In the verses before, Paul mentioned that he baptized Crispus, Gaius and the household of Stephanas. (1 Cor. 1:14-16) He was not doing that without Christ’s permission, but, rather, with the authorization recorded at Matthew 28:19.

The point the apostle was making was that he did not consider the baptizing of individuals his exclusive or primary assignment. Christ specifically told Paul that he was to preach, to be “a witness” to the nations. (Acts 26:16; 9:15) While Paul could and did baptize individuals, there are reasons why he may not have baptized great numbers. The context shows that divisions could spring up. If the apostles themselves specialized in baptizing, it might have contributed to the formation of parties or cliques of Christians baptized by certain men.

So when Paul stayed in Corinth, some years before writing his first letter to the congregation there, he did baptize some persons. But baptism was not a special rite to be performed just by the apostles, nor was it more meaningful when performed by an apostle than when done by another male member of the Christian congregation.

This explanation basically says that baptizing isn't the primary thing, lest divisions occur. The reason I looked this up in the first place is because of Paul saying that some say they belong to Apollos or to Cephas, and that divisions exist because of this. However, the baptism rites of JWs specifically associate and identify them with this specific religion, instead of being baptized into Christ. Thus, divisions exist.

1

Matt 28:19, 20 - a command to ALL Christians?

by leaving_quietly in

we know what matt 28:19,20 says, as jws use this to beat the rank and file over the head with to say that preaching is a command.

"go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things i have commanded you.

i am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.".

leaving_quietly

We know what Matt 28:19,20 says, as JWs use this to beat the rank and file over the head with to say that preaching is a command. "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things."

Notice that this verse does not say to go and preach. It says to go and make disciples, baptizing them and teaching them.

However, what if there were a verse in the Bible that shows that someone is going directly against this so-called command? I submit to you 1 Corinthians 1:17: "For Christ dispatched me, not to go baptizing, but to go declaring the good news, not with wisdom of speech, that the torture stake of the Christ should not be made useless."

Paul is here outrightly saying that his commission was opposite of what Jesus said to do in Matt 28:18.

Things that make you say "hmmm."

12

Eph 1:1 - An example of eisegesis

by leaving_quietly in

eisegesis (formed from the greek preposition ?

"into" and the ending from the english word exegesis, which in turn is derived from ??

"to lead out") is the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that it introduces one's own presuppositions, agendas, or biases into and onto the text.

leaving_quietly

Eisegesis (formed from the Greek preposition εἰς "into" and the ending from the English word exegesis, which in turn is derived from ἐξηγεῖσθαι "to lead out") is the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that it introduces one's own presuppositions, agendas, or biases into and onto the text. (source: Wikipedia)

Eph 1:1: "Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God’s will, to the holy ones who are [in Eph′e·sus] and faithful ones in union with Christ Jesus."

It is has been noted here previously that "in Ephesus" was added, and NWT admits that in a footnote when it mentions several manuscripts that omit it. This is not relevant to what I'm about to point out.

Again:

Eph 1:1: "Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God’s will, to the holy ones who are [in Eph′e·sus] and faithful ones in union with Christ Jesus."

The word "ones" does NOT exist in the original text. This changes the meaning of the verse completely. It is an example to show that there are two groups (e.g. 144,000 and great crowd). However, the original text translates to "and faithful in Christ Jesus" (even the words "union with" are not present in the Greek) thus showing that the holy ones are faithful, not that there's holy ones and faithful ones as if there are two separate groups.

This is egregious!

Edit: I quoted the above from the old NWT. The Revised NWT has it right! "Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God's will, to the holy ones who are in Ephesus and are faithful in union with Christ Jesus."

73

this week's wt study

by thedog1 in

i conducted the wt study tonight on higher education.

i wondered what the reaction of the bros and sis would be.

there was no deviation from the idea that a university education is not a good idea.

leaving_quietly

The entire article goes against scripture.

Jer 31:34: “And they will no more teach each one his companion and each one his brother, saying, ‘KNOW Jehovah!’ for they will all of them know me, from the least one of them even to the greatest one of them,” is the utterance of Jehovah.

Heb 8:10,11: “‘For this is the covenant that I shall covenant with the house of Israel after those days,’ says Jehovah. ‘I will put my laws in their mind, and in their hearts I shall write them. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people. “‘And they will by no means teach each one his fellow citizen and each one his brother, saying: “Know Jehovah!” For they will all know me, from [the] least one to [the] greatest one of them.

73

this week's wt study

by thedog1 in

i conducted the wt study tonight on higher education.

i wondered what the reaction of the bros and sis would be.

there was no deviation from the idea that a university education is not a good idea.

leaving_quietly

I'm just now reviewing it in preparation for today's study at the KH.

Par. 3: "When we presented ourselves for Christian baptism, we had already decided to serve Jehovah, to be his slave. Our dedication sprang from our desire to obey Jehovah and to do his will."

Par. 4: "Paul explained this clearly in one of his inspired letters: "Reckon yourselves to be dead indeed with reference to sin by living with reference to God by Christ Jesus." Then he warned: "Do you not know that if you keep presenting yourselves to anyone as slaves to obey him, you are slaves of him because you obey him, either with death in view or of obedience with righteousness in view?"

Par. 12: Read 1 Corinthians 7:23(which says: "YOU were bought with a price; stop becoming slaves of men."

Hello? Slaves of men? Presenting yourselves to anyone as slaves? Hello? JWs are slaves of MEN, 8 MEN, the Governing Body. Ugh. Why have I not seen this so clearly before????

13

Christmas Songs?

by leaving_quietly in

there are certain songs sung at christmas time that have nothing whatsoever to do with christmas.

i've been reading lyrics lately to make sure, then i make comments to my uber-jw wife, who really, really hates what i'm saying.

for example, the song, "let it snow" has nothing to do with christmas.

leaving_quietly

There are certain songs sung at Christmas time that have nothing whatsoever to do with Christmas. I've been reading lyrics lately to make sure, then I make comments to my uber-JW wife, who really, really hates what I'm saying. For example, the song, "Let it Snow" has nothing to do with Christmas. Not even a mention of anything remotely related to Christmas. It's a winter song. Kinda like a summer song sung by the Beach Boys or something like that. Nothing at all wrong with it. Same with "Winter Wonderland" (although "sleigh bells" is in there). Same with "Sleigh Ride" (the ring-ting-tingaling song, although it has a sleigh and something about someone's birthday, but nothing about Christmas.) What is it with these songs that are actually wrong in a JWs eyes?

24

Society stating they have no special Holy Spirit

by cognac in

i remember them stating something to that affect.

does anybody know where this was said?.

leaving_quietly

marked (Thx Blondie!)

leaving_quietly

Posts by leaving_quietly