leaving_quietly

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Posts by leaving_quietly

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  30

  Dissoi logoi - Jehovah's Witnesses do have the Truth! My Story Part 3

  by objectivetruth in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i stopped attending meetings over one year ago, and i have thoroughly made it clear to all friends & family that i am opposed to the teachings of jehovah's witnesses, and i cannot support a religion that teaches lies.. i have systematically examined each teaching & practice of the jehovah's witnesses.

  concluding that many are not scriptural or logical.. after a year i have very unexpectedly arrived at another conclusion.

  the jehovah's witnesses do have the truth.

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  leaving_quietly

  Acts 1:7 - Jesus did not Answer their Question.. If I were to ask you, "Will you be Going to the Store Tomorrow" and you Replied, "Don't worry about that, it's none of your Business" The Result would be the same, if I had never asked the Question.. Jesus did not answer, he Just let it be and allowed them to wonder.

  Ah, but Jesus' answer was a correction when he said: "It does not belong to you to know". You said he didn't correct them. You didn't say he didn't answer them. I addressed your statement about him not correcting them. True, he didn't answer their question, but he DID correct them.

  declares Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I will write it. And I will become their God, and they will become my people.”" If God is writing his law within people's hearts, how would it be possible to write errors and inaccuracies? - God's Laws are His Statutes,Commandments,Regulations and Not Scriptural Doctrine relating to Prophecy,Chronology and Historical Interpretation..

  I'll give you that at as a technicality, though that does bring into question why so much is written about Jehovah and his Laws (such as the current book, "Draw Close to Jehovah", being studied at the Congregation Bible Study.) Doctrine relating to prophecy, chronology and historical interpretation must be very carefully treaded on. "Do not go beyond the things that are written". JWs do this routinely.
  
  Thanks for quoting the MOSAIC LAW that was abolished. This is the JW mindset. This is not the mind of Christ.

  *** edit... saw your "Side Note" edit... I'm glad to hear you say that. ***
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  30

  Dissoi logoi - Jehovah's Witnesses do have the Truth! My Story Part 3

  by objectivetruth in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i stopped attending meetings over one year ago, and i have thoroughly made it clear to all friends & family that i am opposed to the teachings of jehovah's witnesses, and i cannot support a religion that teaches lies.. i have systematically examined each teaching & practice of the jehovah's witnesses.

  concluding that many are not scriptural or logical.. after a year i have very unexpectedly arrived at another conclusion.

  the jehovah's witnesses do have the truth.

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  leaving_quietly

  I believe what I Believe, but Who am I to Judge some one on what they Believe?

  Exactly right. At the same time, who are JWs to judge even fellow JWs on what they believe? That really is the crux of the matter as lives have been destroyed over this.
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  30

  Dissoi logoi - Jehovah's Witnesses do have the Truth! My Story Part 3

  by objectivetruth in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i stopped attending meetings over one year ago, and i have thoroughly made it clear to all friends & family that i am opposed to the teachings of jehovah's witnesses, and i cannot support a religion that teaches lies.. i have systematically examined each teaching & practice of the jehovah's witnesses.

  concluding that many are not scriptural or logical.. after a year i have very unexpectedly arrived at another conclusion.

  the jehovah's witnesses do have the truth.

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  2. 
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  leaving_quietly

  That is where the Issue lies, any teaching can be Proven with the Bible.

  Ahhhh... now if you started off with this statement in the first place, I would agree with you wholeheartedly. But, the caveat is that any teaching can be proven using methods of eisegesis. In other words, with any bias, the Bible can say anything you want it to say. That's why real, objective, non-biased research is necessary.

  Now, if you are okay with being part of a religion that claims to have the truth, but is, in fact, no different than any other biased religion, how do you feel about that? If it suits you, then good for you. But don't say JWs have the Truth when they clearly do not.
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  30

  Dissoi logoi - Jehovah's Witnesses do have the Truth! My Story Part 3

  by objectivetruth in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i stopped attending meetings over one year ago, and i have thoroughly made it clear to all friends & family that i am opposed to the teachings of jehovah's witnesses, and i cannot support a religion that teaches lies.. i have systematically examined each teaching & practice of the jehovah's witnesses.

  concluding that many are not scriptural or logical.. after a year i have very unexpectedly arrived at another conclusion.

  the jehovah's witnesses do have the truth.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  leaving_quietly

  1. For Every 50 Dates that point to a date other than 607 BCE there are 2 Secular, non Jehovah's Witnesses Sources that point to it.

  I see you tackled the one argument that I said was a wild goose chase. 607 is only a problem because JWs make a big deal of it when, in fact, it shouldn't even be part of the argument based on the future tense of Jesus' words, which ALSO shouldn't be part of the argument because it's a cherry-picked link between the "seven times" in Daniel 4 and "times" in Luke 21:24. This is a non-argument. The whole 1914 thing is a fabricated prophecy.

  2. Jesus Apostles continued to be wrong on several things, and Jesus never corrected them.. Example Acts 1:6 , they were expecting the Kingdom to be restored to Israel at that very Time.

  Of course he corrected them. At Acts 1:7, he said "It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction." How is that not a correction?

  3. With in "Gods Organizations" there have always been Errors & Innacurate Prophesies. - Deuteronomy 18:22 "when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him." This scripture is spoken to Gods Chosen people, The Nation of Israel, which proves there were False Prophets amongst the Israelites, the same as there have been among The Organization. The Scripture does not say "The Israelites will no longer be gods chosen people, it says do not be afraid of him The False Prophet (Individually).

  I'll hold back a little on this one. But, two things:

  1. The new covenant is that God would teach people himself. Jer 31:33,34 is that new covenant: "“For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I will write it. And I will become their God, and they will become my people.”" If God is writing his law within people's hearts, how would it be possible to write errors and inaccuracies? And they will no longer teach each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know Jehovah!’ for they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them,” declares Jehovah. “For I will forgive their error, and I will no longer remember their sin."

  2. If any organization claims to have the truth, then that "truth" changes, and people are expelled, excommunicated, disfellowshipped for not believing their current version of truth, then how could that organization possibly be God's organization? This goes back to your first argument that Jesus never corrected the apostles. If that is true, then why would the organization dare to correct or throw out people who don't believe what comes from the organization as "truth"? Is the organization greater than Jesus?

  *** edited to add Jer. 31:34 also ***
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  19

  What is Truth?

  by objectivetruth in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi,.

  what is "truth" to you, in your life, in your mind?

  .

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  leaving_quietly

  *** deleted ***

  comment out of context (I should have read the rest before I commented)
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  30

  Dissoi logoi - Jehovah's Witnesses do have the Truth! My Story Part 3

  by objectivetruth in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i stopped attending meetings over one year ago, and i have thoroughly made it clear to all friends & family that i am opposed to the teachings of jehovah's witnesses, and i cannot support a religion that teaches lies.. i have systematically examined each teaching & practice of the jehovah's witnesses.

  concluding that many are not scriptural or logical.. after a year i have very unexpectedly arrived at another conclusion.

  the jehovah's witnesses do have the truth.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  leaving_quietly

  Let's get real specific about 1914. JWs teach that Daniel's tree dream in Daniel 4 has, not one, but two fulfillments. They say this using the phrase, "it is not logical to think" that this doesn't have more than one fulfillment because so many of the other visions in Daniel do have a future fulfillment.

  Right off the bat, JWs use speculation to support their teaching.

  Then, they arbitrarily link this vision to Jesus' words at Luke 21:24 based on the word "times" and that word alone. Following that link, they say that Jesus was talking about the times from the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E. (which date is in dispute, but that's not my argument). However, the Greek word for "will be" in the phrase "Jerusalem will be trodden down" is in the FUTURE tense, not the past tense, so Jesus could not have been speaking about an event that occurred some 600 years in his past when he spoke those words.

  So, second major flaw in this argument: cherry-picking scriptures to fit an idea

  607 B.C.E is a third major flaw in that JWs do not accept what the vast majority of scholars, theologians and archeaologists date the destruction of Jerusalem at. However, getting to 607 in the first place is problematic because of the future tense of the phrase "will be", so that's more of a wild goose chase.

  Fourth: JWs didn't start teaching 1914 as the start of Christ's presence until 1943. Prior to then, they taught 1874. Did they have the truth before 1943? Or is it just AFTER 1943 that they started having the truth?
• 
  30

  Dissoi logoi - Jehovah's Witnesses do have the Truth! My Story Part 3

  by objectivetruth in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i stopped attending meetings over one year ago, and i have thoroughly made it clear to all friends & family that i am opposed to the teachings of jehovah's witnesses, and i cannot support a religion that teaches lies.. i have systematically examined each teaching & practice of the jehovah's witnesses.

  concluding that many are not scriptural or logical.. after a year i have very unexpectedly arrived at another conclusion.

  the jehovah's witnesses do have the truth.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  leaving_quietly

  I, too, have been very objective in this journey. Nothing anyone says is taken at face value. I started my research with the premise that JWs DO have the truth. But, my research has shown otherwise. How is it that two presumably intelligent people have done "objective" research and came to very different conclusions?

  My conclusion: JWs have SOME truth. But with very core things they do not have THE truth. The core parts of the JW theology have to do with 1914, the 144,000 vs. great crowd, and heaven vs. paradise earth. Everything else is fluff. If these three doctrines are true, then I would bite.

  Tell us, how did you come to the conclusion that 1914 is true? I came to a very different conclusion, and the house of cards came tumbling down.
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  8

  1971 The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah-How?

  by Cadydriver in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i am doing some research and i could use a pdf copy of the wbts 1971 book " the nations shall know that i am jehovah-how?

  " does anyone have i copy i can download?

  thanks,.

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  leaving_quietly

  I am removing the shared links to OneDrive and Dropbox, so they won't be available anymore.
• 
  8

  1971 The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah-How?

  by Cadydriver in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i am doing some research and i could use a pdf copy of the wbts 1971 book " the nations shall know that i am jehovah-how?

  " does anyone have i copy i can download?

  thanks,.

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  leaving_quietly

  I don't have that one, but it looks like the Internet Archive does:

  https://archive.org/details/letyournamebesan00watc

  As does the Open Library:

  https://openlibrary.org/books/OL14386151M/Let_Your_name_be_sanctified.

  You may have to sign up for an account at these.
• 
  127

  I'm sitting here listening to a JW try to recruit somebody

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm at starbucks .

  just outside in the courtyard.. i'm trembling.

  my hands are shaking.. wow!.

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  leaving_quietly

  It may be important to for him to use the Society's own publications as witness against itself. Even the Bible.

  For example, the Proclaimers book on page 133 has a footnote near a sentence that says that the bible students believed that Christ's presence began in 1874. The footnote says, in part, "A clearer understanding of Biblical chronology was published in 1943, in the book “The Truth Shall Make You Free,” and it was then refined the following year in the book “The Kingdom Is at Hand,” as well as in later publications." That makes one think that the understanding of 1914 as the beginning of Christ's presence didn't come out until 1943. Very contrary to popular thinking that they always understood 1914 this way.

  This is backed up by the book "God's Kingdom Has Approached!". In chapter 11, pages 209-210, paragraph 55, it says this, very pointedly:

  "In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book “The Truth Shall Make You Free.” In its chapter 11, entitled “The Count of Time,” it did away with the insertion of 100 years into the period of the Judges and went according to the oldest and most authentic reading of Acts 13:20, and accepted the spelled-out numbers of the Hebrew Scriptures. This moved forward the end of six thousand years of man’s existence into the decade of the 1970’s. Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E. as the date of return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginning of his invisible presence or parousia."

  So, the understanding of 1914 did not come about until 1943.
  
  The Bible, on the other hand, has a footnote on Hebrews 5:9 (using the old NWT Reference version) on the phrase "had been made perfect". The footnote reads: "Or, “after he had been inaugurated (installed; empowered; consecrated to office).” Gr., te·lei·o·theis′. See Le 21:10 ftn. Compare Le 8:33 ftn." The NWT, the JW Bible itself, admits Christ was inaugurated to office long, long before 1914.
  
  
  These are the things that helped open my eyes a bit to the false teachings of JWs.