Posts by leaving

8

APOLOGIST site addresses APOSTATE complaints

by Terry in

this is a guess on my part.

the watchtower society is using guerilla tactics to unofficially deal with apostatesthrough back channels.. .

the bibles view the primary source for this minisite.gentile times reconsidered again, this time using the bible complete article appears in appendix asetting the record straight also sourced for this website.rolf furuli professor at university of oslo who supports 607jehovahs witnesses united apologetics, etc.the watchtower society as a un ngo demolishing the conspiracy theoryjw child abuse policy exposing the myths

leaving_quietly

So you must decide, will you accept the chronology as recorded in the Holy Bible, God's view, or will you accept the chronology of secular historians and the view of imperfect man?

I dunno...

From the RNWT:

"And Sol′o·mon had 4,000* stalls of horses for his chariots and 12,000 horses." - 1 Kings 4:26 (footnote reads "This figure is found in some manuscripts and in the parallel account. Other manuscripts say 40,000.")
"And Sol′o·mon had 4,000 stalls for his horses and chariots and 12,000 horses," - 2 Chron 9:25

From the old NWT:

"And Sol′o·mon came to have forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots and twelve thousand horsemen." - 1 Kings 4:26
"And Sol′o·mon came to have four thousand stalls of horses and chariots and twelve thousand steeds," - 2 Chron 9:25

Clearly, we can see that "imperfect men" can not only have contradictions in the Holy Bible, but can change said Holy Bible on a whim. So, which do I trust????

26

October 2014 Kingdom Ministry (KM - 10/2014 PDF)

by WatchTower87 in

our kingdom ministry october 2014 .

instruction: press the 'skip ad' button top right, you should then see the download screen more easily.

no virus ;-).

leaving_quietly

"Realistically, we may find it challenging to explain deep Bible truths, such as how we know that the Kingdom started ruling in 1914."

Yeah, especially since 1914 can't be found in the Bible.

36

Sadly inevitable...JWs glad that Robin Williams died on "this side" of Armageddon

by sir82 in

jw
friends

thread is here:.

http://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/16494-robin-williams-found-dead/.

a few quotes:.

leaving_quietly

This was my wife's reaction when I told her the news. She went clamoring on about how many would just LOVE to study with him in the new system.

52

how to survive a three day assembly?

by purrpurr in

hi i have to go to one of these soon.

i find it difficult enough to sit through a meeting knowing what i now know.

how to survive a whole three days???!!!

leaving_quietly

Try it, you may have to look blank if someone later mentions anything from it in a specific way, but you can bluff your way through that, the time off you will have enjoyed will refresh you to be able to face such things easily.

Totally easy to bluff your way through as the highlights have been discussed on this forum in abundance. We know more here about the talks at the convention than most JWs.

10

Why do witnesses believe it was Jehovah said they would be persecuted in his name

by goingthruthemotions in

why do witnesses believe it was jehovah that said they would be persecuted in his name......it was jesus that said we would be persecuted in his name.

i often hear are the meeting the interchanging of names between jehovah and jesus.

it seems like the sheeple drones at the meeting have no real clue about the bible or how to believe.

leaving_quietly

I often hear are the meeting the interchanging of names between Jehovah and Jesus

Yes. As an awake person, I hear this, too. A commenter will read a verse that clearly is Jesus talking, then comment on it by saying, "Here, Jehovah says..."

66

"We're calling on your neighbours to promote a website"

by Simon in

wow, it's true - they don't call to 'promote god's kingdom' anymore but just their website!.

we just had an old lady call and tell us that was exactly what they were doing and it has "lots of good things on their for children".

yeah, right ... sparlock?.

leaving_quietly

What's even weirder than the campaign is to hear it mentioned in prayers:

"Jehovah, please bless this campaign to advertise your website, JW.org."

I've heard it a few times now, and I shudder every time.

34

Is Armageddon part of the Great Tribulation? what was WT writers word?

by prologos in

jw
friends

or put into other words:.

is armageddon included in in "all the things" that are to come to pass during the 'generation' that jesus spoke about?.

leaving_quietly

Vanderhoven7, are you of the opinion that Matt 24 only has one fulfillment and that has come and gone? Just curious.

34

Is Armageddon part of the Great Tribulation? what was WT writers word?

by prologos in

jw
friends

or put into other words:.

is armageddon included in in "all the things" that are to come to pass during the 'generation' that jesus spoke about?.

leaving_quietly

Regarding the quote by “leaving_quietly” mentioned above, “So, the tribulation does not culminate in Armageddon, according to Jesus. Right AFTER the tribulation, is when signs in heaven will be and when the "second coming" occurs,” that could not be correct. A correct rendering of that would read: “Right AFTER that specific part of the tribulation, . . .”; i.e., right after that initial phase of the Great Tribulation when Babyon the Great is to be turned on. The Great Tribulation refers to the whole thing – including Armageddon as the very last part of it.

Yes, this is what WT teaches.

how can Armageddon, with it's promised >7 million survivors, and that at least will spare the animal/birds,-- not be included in it?

Good question.

This is a difficult subject to truly understand as most of us have a one-sided of what Armageddon is. According to Revelation 16:13-16, Armageddon is a PLACE where the kings of the earth (and presumably their armies) are gathered together for the war against God's armies. There is no mention here of non-military people. Rev 19:19-21 seems to be a description of this same event, where again, it's the kings of the earth, and their armies.

The question is, is Armageddon the event that WT makes it out to be? As I read these verses just now, it seems to me it's the ultimate fulfillment of Daniel 2:44, the part where it says of God's kingdom, "It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms."

Noteworthy is Rev 16:15, an interjection, right before talking about Armageddon: "“Look! I am coming as a thief. Happy is the one who stays awake and keeps his outer garments, so that he may not walk naked and people look upon his shamefulness.”"

This seems to imply that it happens BEFORE Christ's second coming, or perhaps as part of it.

So, I don't know myself. I only know what WT teaches. Whether Armageddon is part of the great tribulation or not and whether it involved everyone or not, I simply don't know. Part of me says no. Part of me says yes. It's one of those topics that I'll have to mark: "inconclusive". For now, at least.

34

Is Armageddon part of the Great Tribulation? what was WT writers word?

by prologos in

jw
friends

or put into other words:.

is armageddon included in in "all the things" that are to come to pass during the 'generation' that jesus spoke about?.

leaving_quietly

leaving quietly: " -- GT culminates in Armageddon--" so does that mean wt doctrine is that A is part of the GT?

Yes. More recently, the doctrine changed slightly, but with a similar thought:

*** w13 7/15 p. 5 par. 8 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***
What happens after the initial part of the great tribulation has passed? Jesus’ words indicate that there will be a period of time that will last until the start of Armageddon. What events will occur during that interval? The answer is recorded at Ezekiel 38:14-16 and Matthew 24:29-31. (Read.) After that, we will witness Armageddon, the climax of the great tribulation, which parallels Jerusalem’s destruction in 70 C.E. (Mal. 4:1) With the battle of Armageddon as its climax, that coming great tribulation will be unique—an event “such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning.” (Matt. 24:21) When it has passed, Christ’s Millennial Rule will begin.

So, in their view, the GT doesn't end. It has phases, a start, a lull (which is apparently when the second coming is) and then Armageddon. But, Armageddon is still PART OF the great tribulation.

34

Is Armageddon part of the Great Tribulation? what was WT writers word?

by prologos in

jw
friends

or put into other words:.

is armageddon included in in "all the things" that are to come to pass during the 'generation' that jesus spoke about?.

leaving_quietly

I should have put more of the passage there.

(Matthew 24:29-31) “Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity."

So, the tribulation does not culminate in Armageddon, according to Jesus. Right AFTER the tribulation, is when signs in heaven will be and when the "second coming" occurs.

It's possible that Armageddon comes after that. It's also possible that what WT refers to as the final test at the end of the 1000 years in Rev 20:8 is actually what Armageddon refers to. I'm not so certain about that, but it's something that some feel could be the case.

leaving_quietly

Posts by leaving_quietly