Posts by leaving

long story short i was raised in this cult (but was never baptized) my mother is die hard jdub, i didnt take this "faith" seriously until i was 26, but i had always gone to meeting, was enrolled in the theocratic school and was mediocre in service.

at 26 i made the conscious decision to make this religion my own.

i red the bible cover to cover and used cross reference from the watchtower and other religious sites,with the end goal to get baptized.

leaving_quietly

Oddly enough, but not surprising, the ONE thing Christ said that would identify his disciples is NOT on this list.

By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves. - John 13:35

In addition, Christ warned that there would be all sorts of people who would supposedly do stuff in his name. His reaction?

Why, then, do you call me ‘Lord! Lord!’ but do not do the things I say? - Luke 6:46

What things did Christ say to do BESIDES teaching others do observe his commandments?

How about this?

Eat his flesh and drink his blood (figuratively via partaking of the bread and the wine). See John 6 and notice the words, "unless" and "whoever". JW's do NOT do this because their leadership has told them that they are unworthy.

There's plenty more. Here's a nice, succinct list: http://iblp.org/questions/what-are-commands-christ

Something else to consider: The phrase "true religion" is not in the Bible (just like Trinity or Rapture). The concept of religion is. It's found here:

The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world. - James 1:27

Do JWs have a program set up to look after orphans or widows? No? Why not?

I could go on, but I think I'll stop now.

20

Sister trying to convince me and herself

by NoMoreFear4Tracy in

jw
friends

long story short i was raised in this cult (but was never baptized) my mother is die hard jdub, i didnt take this "faith" seriously until i was 26, but i had always gone to meeting, was enrolled in the theocratic school and was mediocre in service.

at 26 i made the conscious decision to make this religion my own.

i red the bible cover to cover and used cross reference from the watchtower and other religious sites,with the end goal to get baptized.

leaving_quietly

You can't embed an image or file here, but you can link to it if it's somewhere else accessible. Some folks here use sendspace.com. Others use their Google Drive account and share the file, pasting the link here. Hope that helps. Looking forward to the rest of this.

5

It Is Impossible for the governing body to be under The New Covenant. Jeremiah 31

by objectivetruth in

according to the insight book on the topic : "the house of israel".

"all the descendants of jacob, collectively, at any one time.

as the offspring and descendants of jacobs 12 sons, they were quite often called the sons of israel; less often, the house of israel, the people of israel, the men of israel, the state of israel, or the israelites.

leaving_quietly

Paul makes an interesting point, too, in Romans 9 where he says that not all who descend from Israel area really Israel. And he then quotes Isaiah who said that not all Israel will be saved, but only a remnant.

Romans 11, to me, is pretty powerful, also. The REASON the Gentiles were selected is NOT because Israel was rejected. No, it was so that Israel, as a nation, would be incited to jealousy over God's choice to allow the Gentiles in. The whole discussion of the branches of the olive tree is in this chapter, and it's clear that if Israel starts to have faith once again, they will be grafted back in.

As you pointed out, thought, this would occur after the full number of the Gentiles (or fullness of the Gentiles) are brought in.

There's another reason why the GB (and others like them) may not be in the new covenant.

33 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I will write it. And I will become their God, and they will become my people.”
34 “And they will no longer teach each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know Jehovah!’ for they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them,” declares Jehovah. “For I will forgive their error, and I will no longer remember their sin.”

The GB, and religious leaders in general, do not accept that people can know God on their own. Yet, that's exactly what God said would happen to people who are part of this new covenant. Thus, the myriads of books, magazines, etc. that WTBTS produces to 'teach people about Jehovah' tells me that JWs in general are not part of this new covenant because they would not need all this stuff if they were.

26

Parousia (again)

by leaving_quietly in

i noticed this during the wt study on sunday.. 1 cor 15:23: "but each one in his own proper order: christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the christ during his presence.

"the greek word for presence is "parousia", which needs no explanation here as to how wtbts views this word versus the rest of the world.. what i noticed was the striking contradiction made just a few verses later.. 1 cor 15:51,52: "look!

i tell you a sacred secret: we will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.

leaving_quietly

@cofty, I read your story before I posted this topic. Somehow I knew you'd comment.

@Bobcat, yes, you understand what I'm saying. The translation in the NWT in 1 Cor 15:23 makes it seem like the resurrection of the ones who belong to Christ (which WTBTS says is only the 144,000) happens gradually from the beginning of his invisible presence until some point prior to Armageddon (as, if I recall, is the latest thinking on the matter.) As to your other point, nowhere in the scriptures (that I can recall) is parousia linked to Christ's becoming King. It's always in the context of his second coming. (And after looking at your list, it seems we once again agree.)

@prologos, yes, this though occurs to me, too. Probably contextually out of place, but WTBTS does say that the resurrection has already started.

@Island Man, yes, you see the issue, correctly. Your last sentence hits it on the head. Totally screwed up.

It seems to me that reading comprehension is a skill that eludes WTBTS interpreters.

26

Parousia (again)

by leaving_quietly in

i noticed this during the wt study on sunday.. 1 cor 15:23: "but each one in his own proper order: christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the christ during his presence.

"the greek word for presence is "parousia", which needs no explanation here as to how wtbts views this word versus the rest of the world.. what i noticed was the striking contradiction made just a few verses later.. 1 cor 15:51,52: "look!

i tell you a sacred secret: we will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.

leaving_quietly

@Chris Tann, I agree with you on your points. I am only referring to the resurrection of the dead ones and how the word parousia relates. I've gone back and forth in my mind on the meaning of the word. But, for me, this seals the deal. Parousia is not referring to an invisible presence, but to the time when Christ actually arrives. BTW, I agree that the Bible teaches rapture. It's obvious from various scriptures, even Christ's own words at Matt 24:31 and 24:40,41.

@sir82, yes, you are right. JWs see no contradiction in their erroneous teachings. In any of them. Strange how that is. Of course, they can't since WTBTS does all their thinking for them.

10

If elders are responsible for the teaching, the flock---

by prologos in

can you look at any of them and think, say: you taught:-- " the f&ds , the "anointed" existing since pentecost" ---you taught:.

the non-overlapping generation of 1914 ---.

the local drive to get it done before 1975*--.

leaving_quietly

Actually, yes. This is the #1 reason I resigned from serving as an elder after learning just a little bit about TTATT.

Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, knowing that we will receive heavier judgment. - James 3:1

26

Parousia (again)

by leaving_quietly in

i noticed this during the wt study on sunday.. 1 cor 15:23: "but each one in his own proper order: christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the christ during his presence.

"the greek word for presence is "parousia", which needs no explanation here as to how wtbts views this word versus the rest of the world.. what i noticed was the striking contradiction made just a few verses later.. 1 cor 15:51,52: "look!

i tell you a sacred secret: we will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.

leaving_quietly

Some of us are stuck in JW land for various reasons, although mentally out.

26

Parousia (again)

by leaving_quietly in

i noticed this during the wt study on sunday.. 1 cor 15:23: "but each one in his own proper order: christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the christ during his presence.

"the greek word for presence is "parousia", which needs no explanation here as to how wtbts views this word versus the rest of the world.. what i noticed was the striking contradiction made just a few verses later.. 1 cor 15:51,52: "look!

i tell you a sacred secret: we will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.

leaving_quietly

I noticed this during the WT study on Sunday.

1 Cor 15:23: "But each one in his own proper order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence."

The Greek word for presence is "parousia", which needs no explanation here as to how WTBTS views this word versus the rest of the world.

What I noticed was the striking contradiction made just a few verses later.

1 Cor 15:51,52: "Look! I tell you a sacred secret: We will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we will be changed."

Verse 23, in the NWT, infers a gradual resurrection while verse 52 infers a quick and abrupt resurrection.

Comparing this with 1 Thess 4:16, we find agreement with 1 Cor 15:52: "because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first."

My conclusion is that 1 Cor 15:23 is completely inappropriately translated by WTBTS. It should read, as nearly every other translation does: "when he comes" or "at his coming" or "when he arrives" or something similar.

leaving_quietly

Posts by leaving_quietly