Posts by leaving

31

Does anyone have the 2014 stats from the 2015 Yearbook yet?

by berrygerry in

does anyone have the 2014 stats from the 2015 yearbook yet?.

(isn't it usually out by now - or are they waiting to celebrate new year's day?

).

leaving_quietly

Even an increase in number of hours required for one convert: now 7059.58 hours per convert, or 294 days. I think it was 261 days last year, if I recall correctly.

One out of every ~34 bible studies becomes a JW.

2.3 additional JWs per congregation.

11

Everlasting Life on Paradise Earth - My musings of why it cannot be true

by leaving_quietly in

actually, just one musing.. there are a number of scriptures that wtbts uses to support their doctrine of everlasting life on paradise earth.

the vast majority come from the hebrew scriptures.

using just one verse, i believe i can disprove this doctrine quite soundly.. the verse is john 6:68.. simon peter answered him: lord, whom shall we go away to?

There are a number of scriptures that WTBTS uses to support their doctrine of everlasting life on paradise earth. The vast majority come from the Hebrew scriptures. Using just one verse, I believe I can disprove this doctrine quite soundly.

The verse is John 6:68.

Simon Peter answered him: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life.

Peter was a Jew, as were the other apostles at that time. Jesus was speaking to Jews about eating his flesh and drinking his blood. They were all shocked at the thought of it, not realizing he was speaking figuratively. So, many left. When Jesus posed the question, "You do not want to go also, do you?", Peter answered as above.

Had Peter and the other apostles ever heard of everlasting life on a paradise earth at any previous time from any other source, he would NOT have made this statement.

Of course, we know that Jesus never held out the hope of everlasting life on a paradise earth, contrary to what WTBTS would have us believe. The Bible simply never says that at all. Thus, regardless of what all those Hebrew scriptures seem to say, the Jews at that time NEVER understood it the way WTBTS would have us believe.

Thoughts?

12

Wisdom in "the Word of God". Really? What Watchtower got wrong at this week's Congregation "Bible" Study.

by Island Man in

the congregation "bible" study (cbs) for the week of december 29, 2014 to january 4, 2015 was taken from draw close to jehovah, pages 179-182, paragraphs 1-8.. paragraph 3 seems to be using the ancient jew's fear of jehovah's thunderous voice to justify the wisdom of him using moses to record and transmit his laws to the people.

but there is an implied false dichotomy here.

since god is supposedly almighty he is most certainly capable of giving a personal revelation of his requirements to every human in a clear, concise and unambiguous manner that they can fully understand and remember - without having to use his thunderous voice.

leaving_quietly

The contrast that WTBS makes in the CBS this week is not the same as the contrast the author of Hebrews makes. Hebrews 1:1 was cited. This says:

Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways.

The next verse was conveniently skipped. And here's the biblical contrast:

Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things

There is another contrast between the Exodus account and Hebrews.This was conveniently skipped over by the writer of the material.

For you have not approached something that can be felt and that has been set aflame with fire, and a dark cloud and thick darkness and a storm, 19 and the blast of a trumpet and the voice speaking words, which on hearing, the people begged that nothing further should be spoken to them. 20 For they could not bear the command: “If even a beast touches the mountain, it must be stoned.” 21 Also, the display was so terrifying that Moses said: “I am afraid and trembling.” 22 But you have approached a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels 23 in general assembly, and the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens, and God the Judge of all, and the spiritual lives of righteous ones who have been made perfect, 24 and Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and the sprinkled blood, which speaks in a better way than Abel’s blood.

The contrast here is that the Israelites were commanded to not approach the mountain, but those who are part of the new covenant are instructed to do so. The scene in the Exodus account was apparently quite terrifying and the sound quite horrifying. Not so with those in the new covenant.

Paragraph 4 makes the point about how writing the law down solved the issue of the difficulty of having to remember so many laws. But isn't that exactly what rank and file Israelites living in Moses' day had to do? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true that the Law was only readily available to the priests who were charged with orally instructing the rest of the nation? Regular Israelites didn't have the luxury of consulting their own personal copy of the Law like bible owners today have.

Correct. And the kings of Israel had to write their own copy and read it daily. Keep in mind that "the Law" was Genesis through Deuteronomy. It really was just a small portion of that. So, writing it down would have taken a few days (or maybe a few weeks at most).

The entire CBS was all about comparing the JW way of worship to the Israelite way. That way was made obsolete. (Heb 8:13)

12

research impossible

by sowhatnow in

so, now that nearly all of the past knowledge that jw's has had is slowly being deleted, how does anyone do any research on any subject?.

meetings are pretty boring as it is, all they do is parrot the society's writings.. how is this going to work?

i have to wonder , what point is the service meeting , once you know how to walk up to a door and hand someone a magazine.

leaving_quietly

lol, i think you misunderstood my point, [but thats typical of my writing, people dont get me for some reason]
I have all the old stuff , that isnt what i was getting at. its the irony that if someone who is a jw wants to do research, they cannot, because they cant find any 'right' answers. all the old stuff is basically obsolete doctrine

Sorry... yes, I missed your point.

Actually, there is a rule of thumb among JWs: The most recent printing about a topic is still considered the truth.

I have found stuff that hasn't been talked about in any publications since the 30s. Crazy as it sounds, by this rule of thumb, it's still considered truth. But, because none of that is easily available, or is so old, most JWs will consider it obsolete, as you said. Which is strange because the Bible is a whole lot older than anything JWs printed.

Of course, using this rule of thumb, JWs are trained to ignore anything older than the most recent information on a topic.

And the vast majority of JWs are kept so busy doing other things (meetings, service, family worship, JW.org, JW TV, assemblies) they don't have the time, energy or desire to actually research. So they let the organization do the research for them.

62

Your explanation for a total contradiction in the New World Translation.

by Johnny Brown in

"for if you publicly declare with your mouth that jesus is lord,+ and exercise faith in your heart that god raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.

10 for with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration+ for salvation.

11 for the scripture says: no one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed.+

leaving_quietly

Welcome to the forum!

Most of us here are either ex-JWs or current JWs who aren't buying it anymore for a variety of reasons. Just so you are aware of your audience.

Now, on to your question. The anonymous NWT translation committee decided to "restore" God's personal name in the Bible, including 237 times in the NT where THEY believe it should be. Part of their reasoning is that if something is quoted from the OT (as is the case of Romans 10:13... it quotes Joel 2:32) and the OT verse has God's name (represented by the Tetragrammaton, which most other translations translate as LORD in all caps) then they would use it in the NT verse. Unfortunately, this rule is violated quite often for verses in the NT that are NOT quotes from the OT. They have a habit of translating the Greek word Kyrios into Jehovah instead of Lord.

If you have any interest in this, there is an analysis done around this that makes for an interesting read:

http://tetragrammaton.org/divname.html

36

urban legends

by chirac in

dear brothers ans sisters.

i just received this mail in french..(thank you google to have translates it)..this mail is from a still inside brother who encourage to come back.

do you think its a fact or an other urban legend.

leaving_quietly

This was discussed a couple of years ago:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/249149/brother-placed-teach-book-president-obama-wtf?page=1

My only comment is: So what? Placing a book means nothing. Did the President become a JW? No. If he did, that would be worth reporting on.

12

research impossible

by sowhatnow in

so, now that nearly all of the past knowledge that jw's has had is slowly being deleted, how does anyone do any research on any subject?.

meetings are pretty boring as it is, all they do is parrot the society's writings.. how is this going to work?

i have to wonder , what point is the service meeting , once you know how to walk up to a door and hand someone a magazine.

leaving_quietly

The WT Library CD has stuff from before 2000. Also, old magazines and books are available in PDF form online. For example, if you're looking for a 1933 Watchtower, enter 1933 Watchtower into Google and you'll find it. The Internet Archive also has some older stuff. And, if you really are having a hard time finding something, just ask here. There's some good sleuths that seem to be able to find just about anything.

14

Any luck kicking the bottle?

by Ignoranceisbliss in

jw
friends

as i continue my sllllooooooowwwwwww fade one of the things that i want to do is better myself as a person.

one of my biggest pitfalls has always been drinking.

i don't think i am an alcoholic but at the same time i've never been a very good drinker.

leaving_quietly

This is a tough one. It takes discipline. I've been through this. For me, it required removing alcohol from the home. Seriously. If it's not available, you won't drink as much. If you want a drink, go out and limit to one or two. It costs a whole lot more when having a beer at a restaurant than at home, so there's a money component to this, too. Plus, when you're out, you have to worry about your blood alcohol level, so you, hopefully, will have enough sense to limit yourself so as to not put others in harm's way.

I have been in your shoes and made this choice years ago. It wasn't easy at first, but it gets easier over time. I still want that glass of wine some evenings or beer on a hot day, but I haven't had alcohol in the home for several years now.

15

Rivercrest Luxury Apartments

by tezrichmond in

i was totally p***d off about watchtower teaching u should keep your life simple and not investing in treasures in the earth etc while they are buying luxury apartments and forcing its residents out on the street including children.

so i got on with an email and sent it as follows.

if any from uk want to launch a complaint go to http://www.frsb.org.uk/donors/.

leaving_quietly

@leaving_q that 11.5 million was paid for the land.

Ah. My misunderstanding of the article. Seems you're right about that based on other articles I found.I kinda thought $11.5 million was too cheap. But, in building projects, a lot of cost is in labor, so with free labor, it's hard to estimate.

Also, I was thinking about the purchase. We can't say for sure it was with donated funds, of course. The sell-off in Brooklyn probably paid for these in full without use of CURRENT donated funds. So, I retract that part of my statement. Basically, I'm saying: I don't know where those funds are coming from. I probably shouldn't speak about something I know nothing about.

Complain about this if you feel strongly about it, but it seems like there are so many other things more worth griping over.

Well said.

15

Rivercrest Luxury Apartments

by tezrichmond in

i was totally p***d off about watchtower teaching u should keep your life simple and not investing in treasures in the earth etc while they are buying luxury apartments and forcing its residents out on the street including children.

so i got on with an email and sent it as follows.

if any from uk want to launch a complaint go to http://www.frsb.org.uk/donors/.

leaving_quietly

Luxury apartments or not, the issue is the price and the use of donated funds. The article states the sale price is not known, but the transfer tax indicates it was around $57 million, making it $228,000 per unit (250 units) BEFORE remodeling. You can be sure remodeling WILL happen. On top of that, the $21.6 million for the Hampton Inn in Newburgh, and the 48 unit apartment complex in Suffern (undisclosed price). So far, the $78.6 million in housing purchases is nearly 7 times as much as the estimated cost of building the Warwick HQ ($11.5 million according to http://observer.com/2011/09/all-along-the-watchtower/)

leaving_quietly

Posts by leaving_quietly