leaving_quietly

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Posts by leaving_quietly

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  17

  Rev 17:9 - Thoughts?

  by leaving_quietly in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  rev 17:9 describes something about the "woman", the harlot, babylon the great:.

  here is where the intelligence that has wisdom comes in: the seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top.

  and there are seven kings: five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet arrived, but when he does arrive he must remain a short while.. i was dreaming about this verse last night, so i thought i'd look it up.

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  leaving_quietly

  Rev 17:9 describes something about the "woman", the harlot, Babylon the great:
  

  Here is where the intelligence that has wisdom comes in: The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. And there are seven kings: five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet arrived, but when he does arrive he must remain a short while.

  I was dreaming about this verse last night, so I thought I'd look it up. I have long thought, ever since I was a child, that the seven mountains might not mean what WTBTS says it means, but that it may mean seven continents or seven seas instead. This is because Rev 17:1 says the harlot sits on "many waters". I don't recall much about my dream, only the words "seven continents" in relation to this verse. So, I thought I'd look into it further this morning. But, this post is not about the seven mountains. Bear with me.
  

  I came across a blog posting about the verse that asked an interesting question:

  On what basis can anyone claim that the present tense John wrote is anything other than a reference to a state of affairs existing in his time?

  http://www.patheos.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/2012/03/is-revelation-179-10-the-decisive-evidence-against-the-end-times-view-of-revelation.html
  

  WTBTS explanation is this:

  The seven heads of that ferocious beast stand for seven “mountains,” or seven “kings.” Both terms are used Scripturally to refer to governmental powers. (Jeremiah 51:24, 25; Daniel 2:34, 35, 44, 45) In the Bible, six world powers are mentioned as having an impact on the affairs of God’s people: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome. Of these, five had already come and gone by the time John received Revelation, whereas Rome was still very much a world power. This corresponds well with the words, “five have fallen, one is.”
  

  Revelation Climax p. 251 par. 2
  

  Here's my question: Regarding the seven kings, would they be describing kings as seen from John's point of view in his time? Or, would they be describing kings as seen from the point of view in the day of the Lord? At the beginning of the book, at Revelation 1:10, John says that by the spirit, he came to be in the day of the Lord. Does this change the view of who these seven kings are?
  

  
  
  
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  12

  Books/texts/scriptures mentioned in the bible , though not incorporated in the bible cannon .

  by smiddy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  if a bible writer / scribe refers to a particular book text or scripture by name , for one reason or another, shouldn`t that be a legitimate reason for including it in the bible cannon as a part of the bible ?.

  just how many texts , books, scriptures are left out of the old testament bible that are mentioned there in and how many, if any are their in the new testament..

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  leaving_quietly

  There's also the letter to the Laodicean congregation.

  And when this letter has been read among you, arrange for it also to be read in the congregation of the La·o·di·ceʹans and for you also to read the one from La·o·di·ceʹa. (Col 4:16)
  
  
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  18

  Watchtower doctrine: Judges 1:19 (God couldn't defeat the Iron Chariots)

  by southwest in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this weeks assigned bible reading is judges 1-4. i have never noticed judges 1:19 before which reads in the nwt as:.

  jehovah was with judah, and they took possession of the mountainous region, but they could not drive out the inhabitants of the plain,* because they had war chariots with iron scythes.

  but in the kj as:.

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  leaving_quietly

  Yet another verse WTBTS never comments on. However, typing in "Judges 1:19" into Google search yields many interesting results.
  
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  18

  Why do Jehovah's Witnesses do this?

  by runForever in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  why do jehovah's witnesses as individual members readily think that apostates are having a sweeping mass delusion?

  if some jw's have known you for a long time do they really think you based everything on some random delusion you randomly had instead of confirming the information?.

  it's quite retarded even the bible itself is contradicting them in jeremiah about the 70 years.. i know some know, and some choose not to know but what about the rest?.

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  leaving_quietly

  ARS, you seem to have a fascination with SEX. It's not the first post you've accused us as having that as the reason for leaving. I am a married person, so SEX is not the reason for me. Nor is it for quite a number of people here, so quit making these sweeping accusations.
  

  NEVR ONCE have I known a SINGLE PERSON that was "due to doctrines that I disagreed with..." because you cant even be disfellowshipped for that AND THE MAIN thing is, WHAT DOCTRINE is SOOOOOOOOOO bad that you give up the baby with the bathwater?

  And you know everyone here? Just because you don't know someone who left for this reason doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It is my PRIMARY reason for wanting to leave. Yes, you can get disfellowshipped for not believing. There's plenty of documented accounts of that. What doctrine is so bad? Does it matter? If we still believe in God (and I still do) then what is it God wants? John 4:23,24 says worshippers must worship with spirit and truth. Doctrines surrounding salvation must be truthful. If they are not, then we are not worshipping with truth.

  If there is no paradise earth, then that's a false hope. If there was a paradise earth, don't you think Paul, Peter, James and John would have spoken or written about it BEFORE Revelation? Revelation came around AFTER the rest of them died, so none of them died believing in any paradise earth. Even Revelation doesn't say anything about a paradise earth. For that matter, that phrase isn't in the Bible at all. Paul said that even an angel should be accursed if anything different than the good news he taught was preached (Gal. 1:6-8). If an angel should be accursed, then so should anyone else preaching any other good news, INCLUDING JWs.
  
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  2

  List Of Watchtower Misquotes

  by Bangalore in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here are some links showing various misquotes from wt publications.. http://home.comcast.net/~docbob1/misquotes.htm.

  http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=2357.

  http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/how-watchtower-distorts-writings-of_15.html.

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  leaving_quietly

  Thanks for putting that together.

  LQMARKED
  
• 

  How about a Bible API?

  by leaving_quietly in

  1. forum
  2. suggestions

  since we post quite a few scriptures on this site, it would be useful if they could pop-up the verse(s) when the link is clicked.. a couple of possibilities i found:.

  http://reftagger.com/.

  http://labs.bible.org/netbibletagger.

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  leaving_quietly

  Since we post quite a few scriptures on this site, it would be useful if they could pop-up the verse(s) when the link is clicked.

  A couple of possibilities I found:
  

  http://reftagger.com/

  http://labs.bible.org/NETBibleTagger

  
  
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  23

  Feeling low

  by campaign of hate in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  christ, my mind feels f***ed.

  there is so many layers of indoctrination and rules and regulations in this, whatever this is (religion?

  cult?

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  leaving_quietly

  I hear you. I'm at the same place you are. The number of "what ifs" is less that it used to be, but there are a couple of really big ones.

  Just yesterday, I was trying to re-prove to myself that the anointed are not just the 144,000. But, as I was going through the verses, this gnawing thought kept coming to me: what if they're actually right? I even drew a chart about how they prove this concept. And, as much as I hate to say it, while I have seen a ton of argumentation against the number 144,000 being literal, I have seen almost no argumentation against the fact that the 144,000 are sealed (Rev 7:3) and the anointed are sealed (2 Cor 1:21,22) or the 144,000 are firstfruits (Rev 14:4) and the anointed are firstfruits (James 1:18). Even jwfacts.com doesn't address these particular parts of the reasoning. In my opinion, nearly ever other JW doctrine depends on "anointed = 144,000", so this is an important one to me.

  So, what if they're right about this, based on these reasonings? And if they're right about this, then paradise earth isn't so much of a stretch, even though it's not explicitly stated anywhere.

  Anyway, hang in there. It's going to take a while to get past all this. Even if you stop suddenly, there's no way to stop the "what ifs" from hanging around.
  

  
  
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  19

  Explaining away the increase in anointed

  by lurkernomore in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so i was just informed by my wife that her grandmother (who's also out) has been told by a 'sister' from her old hall that during their most recent circuit visit the co said something along the lines of:.

  isn't it faith strengthening that the number of anointed is falling in relation to the increase in publishers?

  !.

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  leaving_quietly

  In the public talk yesterday, the brother said that the reason we don't want to go to heaven is because we don't perceive heaven. He used Hebrews 5:14 with the phrase "powers of discernment", then referred to the old NWT where it says, "their perceptive powers". I couldn't help but to shake my head. He was right, and even Paul knew that, since there were apparently some back then who didn't want to either. So, he wrote:

  I am pressing on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God by means of Christ Jesus. Therefore, let those of us who are mature be of this mental attitude, and if you are mentally inclined otherwise in any respect, God will reveal the above attitude to you. - Phil 3:14,15

  
  

  Regarding the OP, there's no such thing as number of anointed in relation to anyone else. In relation to? Seriously, where do they get this stuff? Oh, yeah... high control group.... got to explain away the unexplainable.
  
  
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  24

  Jehovah's Witnesses recover best from surgery, despite refusing blood.

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  that's' the headline of an article in the sydney morning herald.

  my jw family are sharing it with glee on facebook right now.

  here's the link; .

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  leaving_quietly

  I usually don't comment on blood transfusion topics, mainly because my opinion on it has nothing to do with the merits of a transfusion versus not having a transfusion. My opinion more has to do with how WTBTS regulates this area of life as law instead of applying mercy. Christ showed what mercy meant when healing someone on the Sabbath. He said, "How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do a fine thing on the Sabbath." (Matt 12:12) Just prior to that, he said, "However, if you had understood what this means, ‘I want mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless ones." (Matt 12:7).

  
  
  
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  32

  Series of articles about the March 15, 2015 Watchtower on AD1914.com

  by Gilgamesh in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  over the next 5 weeks, we should have 5 or 6 articles/posts that will provide more commentary on the march 15, 2015 watchtower.

  important doctrinal changes in march 15th, 2015 watchtower (study edition) explained wp.me/p4cpzs-xo .

  http://ad1914.com/2014/04/20/new-important-doctrinal-changes-in-march-15th-watchtower-study-edition-explained-clarified/.

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  leaving_quietly

  I'm reading your latest Elijah/Elisha article. Very interesting. Not through it all, yet. Time doesn't permit me at the moment.

  
  One suggestion: when quoting from past WT articles or publications, it might be best to either (a) give the full reference as to where one can find the quote (e.g. stating Watch Tower April 15, 1918 isn't quite enough... a page number would be most helpful... took me awhile to find the original quote.) and/or (b) don't put ellipsis in the quote, as this gives the impression that something important was left out, causing people like me who have a distrust already of this practice by WTBTS to have to go look up the full quote ourselves.

  Fortunately, the April 15, 1918 quote is okay, even with the ellipsis, though I would say that the final sentence in the paragraph in the article hits the point home, which you did not include in the quote.
  

  These seeming disappointments were divinely foreknown, "his appointments."