Posts by leaving

45

Many Member Just Want to Believe

by OnTheWayOut in

if you are/were an active jw, you are now here on jwn so, for whatever your reasons, you woke up to some degree- hopefully a great degree.

so what i am saying may not apply to you.. i know that if i had not already left, i would have stormed out on the day they studied "overlapping generation.

" i am quite confident i couldn't have stayed for such an obvious switcharoo just to make the end seem imminent and try to explain how wts was wrong, but not entirely wrong in the past.. but i had to wonder how that change (or others) didn't cause most jw's to walk out.

leaving_quietly

It's interesting to compare magic with WTBTS teachings. I first noticed this sleight of hand last night. I've been wondering ever I caught it how I never noticed it before:

From the Bible Teach book, p. 27 (December 2014 printing... yep, a new one is out with a new cover and all... time to do a comparison!!!):

GOD’S purpose for the earth is really wonderful. Jehovah
wants the earth to be filled with happy, healthy
people. The Bible says that “Jehovah God planted a garden
in Eden” and that he “made to grow . . . every tree
that was pleasing to look at and good for food.” After
God created the first man and woman, Adam and Eve,
He put them in that lovely home and told them: “Be
fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it.”
(Genesis 1:28; 2:8, 9, 15) So it was God’s purpose that
humans have children, extend the boundaries of that
garden home earth wide, and take care of the animals.

Let's see what the references say.

Gen 1:28:

Further, God blessed them, and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.”

Nothing there about extending the boundaries of the garden. Oh, wait, man wasn't even IN the garden, yet. Hang on...

Gen 2:8, 9:

Further, Jehovah God planted a garden in E′den, toward the east; and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 Thus Jehovah God made to grow out of the ground every tree that was pleasing to look at and good for food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.

Ah, now we see man placed in the garden. But still, nothing about extending its boundaries.

Gen 2:15:

Jehovah God took the man and settled him in the garden of E′den to cultivate it and to take care of it.

Once again, there is no command to extend the boundaries of the garden. To cultivate it, yes and to take care of it, yes. But to extend it? It does not say that. What of the word "cultivate"? The Hebrew word is lə-‘ā-ḇə-ḏāh (Strong's 5647) which means "to work, serve". Thus, some translations say: "The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. " Cultivate does NOT mean extend.

This hit me like a ton of bricks last night. Take away God's supposed purpose, that of a Paradise Earth(TM) and what do you have left? There goes the carrot at the end of the stick.

But do you see the sleight of hand? The verses say one thing, and WTBTS says something that the Bible DOES NOT SAY.

11

Vomit alert - how many Dubs actually like the noolite .tv?

by hamsterbait in

one witless i know actually said "i really like brother lett - his face is soo expressive, the eyebrows go up and he uses his lips to enunciate every word clearly.

and he speaks slowly so it is easy to follow what he is saying.".

another said "iwas so excited after watching the new tv channel.

leaving_quietly

I don't care much about appearances. It's what comes out of those lips that matter. When someone can say there's more evidence of God's Kingdom ruling than electricity or wind, then that's a real problem.

8

"Searchable"--1969 Kingdom Interlinear Translation--PDF!

by Atlantis in

after i posted the "1969 kingdom interlinear translation" pdf, my friend (anonymous), was kind-hearted enough to provide us with a "searchable" pdf of the kingdom interlinear of which the download link is listed below.

this is the only "searchable" pdf of the 1969 kingdom interlinear on the net that i am aware of.

anonymous knows that there are many "master researchers" coming here to this forum and their time is valuable.

leaving_quietly

https://ia601406.us.archive.org/23/items/WatchtowerLibrary/manuals/1969_int-a_E.pdf

Seems a bit slow, but I was able to download it. ~69MB

32

'Trusted' Jehovahs Witness raped and sexually abused girls

by cliff in

'trusted' jehovahs witness raped and sexually abused girls.

court: barry furlong arrives at bournemouth crown court.

first published tuesday 9 december 2014 in news by jane reader.

leaving_quietly

This sort of thing needs wide exposure. There's a pioneer woman in the cong. I attend that is constantly harping on the Catholics for their issues with abuse, always in an us vs. them sort of way. The typical JW is unaware of the magnitude of this within their own organization.

33

"The Friends"

by FeelingFree in

i have only come across this term very recently on jwn and in an "apostate" video i watched yesterday.

never have i heard anyone refer to jw's as "the friends" here in the uk.

is it just used in america?.

leaving_quietly

A term I've heard all my life. Didn't realize it wasn't common elsewhere. Apparently used in Norway, too, according to this quote:

“I said many prayers to Jehovah,” says Elsebeth, “and I kept in touch with the friends we had met by exchanging pictures and experiences.” - w13 1/15 p. 4.

11

The Faithful Slave - An Obvious Question I Haven't Heard Asked

by berrygerry in

since the big 7 have appropriated this "blessed" title for themselves, and disavowed the existence of this slave prior to 1919, an obvious question comes up.. was it not the apostate maria russell that proffered that ctr was "the slave," and was the coiner of the term "the faithful slave"?.

if the slave did not come into existence until 1919, then how was it possible that prior to 1919 that anyone knew that it existed, or would have been able to foretell that it would come into existence?.

was maria a prophetic apostate?.

leaving_quietly

@sowhatnow - They used to claim this. This changed when they elevated the GB to the FDS position. They now claim that the appointment over all his belongings is future. But the kicker is that they moved what "all his belongings" used to mean (KHs, branch offices, etc.) categorically under the term "domestics". See the 7/15/2013 WT for all of this.

31

Do Jws even need Jesus?

by TTWSYF in

jw
friends

just thinking out loud becauseof some things my elder brother has said in the past.

how his works help ensure his future w/the great crowd on earth.. .

well, i need jesus for my salvation,but perhaps some of you do not.. just asking.

leaving_quietly

@ADCS - that's golden! Thanks for putting the lie right out there.

40

What Was Your Body of Elders Like?

by minimus in

jw
friends

were they pretty much a good group of men?

we're they jerks?.

leaving_quietly

I'll say what the BOE in my cong IS like. I may very well be in a cong that's an anomaly. The BOE is one of the kindest I've ever known. Not quick to DF. COBE is older, a very gentle man, whom everyone loves. Service Overseer is a pioneer, but this man lives his chosen profession. In service all the time. Lots of studies who actually come to the KH. Probably one of the only ones who generates studies like that. A nice person, in general, and someone who I like calling a friend. Secretary is a scatter-brained fellow who is always smiling. He looks out for everyone in the congregation and folks generally like him. He can be a bit abrasive at times because he doesn't realize when he's gone too far in joking. School Overseer is a kind person that the publishers generally like. We have one ex-bethelite elder who is pretty low-key. Doesn't want to do too much given his family responsibilities. In all, none of them have any hidden agenda. I served with these guys for a few years, and none of them want more power than any one else. I served with these elders, and that's one thing I liked... no one was out for power. They really just wanted to look after the congregation.

So, from a kindness and genuineness perspective, these guys really are model elders. I think, as close as possible to what elders should be. I served with a really bad elder body years ago. So, I've seen both kinds. I'll take the current BOE any day.

19

Reinstatement - repentance - works - Can you explain how this is supposed to work?

by berrygerry in

nov 15, 2006 wt.

when requesting reinstatement, he should be able to give evidence that he has repented and is producing works that befit repentance.acts 26:20.. .

how possibly can someone "give evidence" or "produce works"?.

leaving_quietly

Attend all the meetings and make sure your WT / book is underlined. And if you have wronged someone, try your best to make restitution. That isn't always possible because some situations don't call for restitution. But, whereever possible, to so.

Of course, the verse used is WAY, WAY, WAY out of context. I wish I had realized that when I was an elder.

Paul was talking about his ministry to those in Damascus, Jerusalem, Judea and the Gentiles and was telling them to repent and do works befitting repentence. These people were not yet Christians. What "works" did Paul emphasize? He contrasted the works of the flesh with the fruits of the spirit in Galatians 5. The works he constantly talked about were the works produced by the spirit: love, joy, peace, etc. The works that befit repentence would naturally be things that showed one actually had the spirit, namely, helping others, such as the poor, the orphans and the widows. That these are the works Paul referred to can be seen easily by reading his letters.

9

Watchtower Oct 15 2014. Legal contracts?

by StarTrekAngel in

for anyone who may have looked at, or attended the wt study for this week.

the first two articles of the magazine in subject use, in my opinion, the word "legal contract" too often.

anyone noticed this?

leaving_quietly

Not sure we can fault WTBTS for this teaching as there is Biblical precedence for it. I haven't done a deep study into this particular aspect of the covenants (their legalities), however, they are probably basing these "legal contracts" on the language of Hebrews 6:16,17:

For men swear by someone greater, and their oath is the end of every dispute, since it is a legal guarantee to them. 17 In this same way, when God decided to demonstrate more clearly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of his purpose, he guaranteed it with an oath,
The phrase "legal guarantee" is unique to the NWT (as far as a super quick search shows). However, the definition seems to be okay. The phrase used is is "eis bebaoisin" which is can be a technical term for a legal guarantee in a transaction. It literally means "for confirmation". The idea expressed in verse 16 is not uncommon. In the U.S., there's such a thing as a "verbally binding agreement," which, when tested in the courts, if both parties state that they agreed to something verbally, it is considered binding, thus, a legal guarantee. Verse 17 here is showing the binding agreement God entered into when he made his promise to Abraham. It really isn't that far of a stretch to say that all the covenants, which means "promises", are "legal contracts" bound by verbal agreements, sometimes by only one party (God himself) and other times by two parties (e.g. the Law covenant where the Israelites agreed to it verbally (Ex 19:3-8).)

So, at first glance, it appears that while the use of the phrase "legal contract" to the degree used in the article is irritating, it does not appear to be incorrect.

leaving_quietly

Posts by leaving_quietly