leaving_quietly

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Posts by leaving_quietly

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  25

  Blondie's Comments on the 1-18-2015 WT Study (HOLY)

  by blondie in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  november 15, 2014 wt study issue.

  january 18, 2015 to be studied.

  opening comments.

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  leaving_quietly

  This was mentioned in another thread (don't have time to find it now), but is worth repeating. A prime example of making a passage say whatever they want it to say.
  

  Paragraph 18:

  18 To be holy, we must weigh the Scriptures carefully and do what God asks of us. Consider Aaron’s sons Nadab and Abihu, who were executed for offering “unauthorized fire,” perhaps while inebriated. (Leviticus 10:1, 2) Note what God then told Aaron. (Read Leviticus 10:8-11.) Does that passage mean that we must not drink anything alcoholic before going to a Christian meeting? Think about these points: We are not under the Law. (Romans 10:4) In some lands, our fellow believers use alcoholic beverages in moderation at meals before attending meetings. Four cups of wine were used at the Passover. When instituting the Memorial, Jesus had his apostles drink wine that represented his blood. (Matthew 26:27) The Bible condemns heavy drinking and drunkenness. (1 Corinthians 6:10; 1 Timothy 3:8) And many Christians would feel impelled by their conscience to abstain completely from alcoholic beverages before engaging in any form of sacred service. However, circumstances vary from one country to another, and the important thing is for Christians to “distinguish between the holy thing and the profane” so as to conduct themselves with holiness that pleases God.

  
  

  Yet, note what WTS said just ten years ago regarding the VERY SAME VERSES:

  Jehovah commanded those performing priestly duties at the tabernacle: “Do not drink wine or intoxicating liquor . . . when you come into the tent of meeting, that you may not die.” (Leviticus 10:8, 9) Therefore, avoid drinking alcoholic beverages just before attending Christian meetings, when sharing in the ministry, and when caring for other spiritual responsibilities. -- w04 12/1 p. 21 par. 15
  

  
  
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  5

  Just shovel the coal, don't question the captain

  by St George of England in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  on jw broadcasting there is a video of a missionary couple who were sent to a navajo reservation.

  the sister says the thing she learned most at bethel was "shovel the coal, don't question the captain".

  it's worth watching about 60 seconds from the 4 minute mark.

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  leaving_quietly

  Captain Jean-Luc Picard: The crew is accustomed to following my orders.
  Lily Sloane: They're probably used to your orders making SENSE!
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  4

  Leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees

  by John_Mann in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jesus said about keeping off from the leaven (meaning influence?

  ) of the pharisees and that's why the use of azim bread in the supper.

  but what about the leavened grape juice aka wine?

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  leaving_quietly

  Unleavened bread and the leaven of the pharisees are not the same thing. The bread used during the Lord's supper was bread that was specified for use during the Passover. Exodus 12 contains the instructions for the Passover meal.

  The leaven of the Pharisees, according to Matthew 16:6, was their teaching. Luke 12:1 calls the leaven of the Pharisees hypocrisy.

  Leaven has a few figurative meanings. In one case, Jesus likened the Kingdom of the heaves to leaven that ferments a bunch of flour. His meaning appears to be that it would have a lot of growth. (Matt 13:33)
  

  In another case, leaven was used to represent badness. 1 Cor 5:6-8.

  As for the wine, I don't know that the Bible even says it was wine. I've never looked closely enough. Matt 26:29 calls it, "this product of the vine". 1 Cor 11:21 says that some were taking his own evening meal and getting intoxicated. That may indicate it was wine. But the accounts of the evening meal simply say, "the cup" and "this product of the vine". I leave what particular beverage it was to scholars and historians.
  
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  Fudging the Numbers: Is the WTBTS in decline?

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  it's no secret that the wtbts has a cash flow problem.

  over the past three years they have closed 20 of their 116 branches.

  they have sold off most of their properties in and around ny (including some kingdom halls), drastically reduced the # of printed pages for the watchtower and awake magazines, reduced the printing of books and other materials, increased the number of single page tract campagnes, installed cc machines at their assembly halls, and are now seizing of controll of property assets from local kingdom halls using renovation projects.

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  leaving_quietly

  I can't comment on how much cash they do or do not have. Considering a purchase of a 250-unit apartment complex in Fishkill, NY for an undisclosed amount, but a transfer tax of $57 million, this puts it at $228,000 per unit. They'd have to have SOME cash for this sort of transaction.

  As for baptisms, I'd be willing to wager that the majority are children of JWs. Our recent Circuit Assembly had three baptized, all under 18.

  As for the increases in number of congregations, it appears to be foreign language "groups" being formed into actual congregations. One of the speakers at the CA mentioned three new congregations formed in the U.S. from Russian-speaking groups. Based on the number of baptisms, there are less than 3 new publishers per existing congregation, so that wouldn't normally warrant new congregations being formed. However, foreign language groups morphing into congregations would, as would the formation of english groups in non-english countries. This seems to also be on the upswing.

  Is there a decline? No. Slowing growth? It would appear so.
  
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  4

  WT Study for Jan 18, 2015

  by Bobcat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for any interested, there is a good analysis of the wt study for 1/18/2015 here.

  paragraph 18 makes a curious flip-flop from w04 12/1 p. 21 par.

  15.. bobcat.

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  leaving_quietly

  This is actually a very good example of reading into the scriptures whatever you want. Saving for future use.
  
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  22

  Is The Borg going back to “Old School” thinking & getting more hardcore?

  by thedepressedsoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  im still in and i cant help but feel nervous as more and more changes are coming forward.

  i cant help but feel that they are starting to get more hardcore again.

  let me explain.

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  leaving_quietly

  It's all under the guise of getting 8 million people to be "in unity". As explained at our CA, with 8 million people from all walks of life, one of the biggest challenges the organization is facing is being peacable with one another. Thus the "Seek Peace and Pursue It" theme of the CA. That CA was all about denying self and looking out for the other person. Of course, that's not a bad thing. But much of it comes at the cost of individuality. It's interesting how little the Bible actually says about ways to be peaceful. Christ and the apostles left the "how" part of "love your neighbor" up to each person, with small reminders to simply be peaceable. The organization, on the other hand, has to control it. How to be peaceable as a youth at school. How to be peaceable within the congregation. How to be peaceable while in the field ministry. And so on.

  I expect more control to come down. It's a natural course for a high-control group like this.
  
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  14

  How to reply to- "just wait on Jehovah".

  by runForever in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  all you have to say is "who says jehovah is not using me right now?

  " something to that effect.. if they say you are just a low-life nobody just point out amos nipper of figs.

  and if they say "do you think you're a prophet?

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  leaving_quietly

  My favorite: What if Jehovah is waiting on us? After all, the scriptures were written over 2000 years ago!
  
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  9

  Sundays Watchtower Study Jan 11th 2015

  by anonread in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  did anyone go to meeting sunday?

  i'm curious about how the 'we must be holy' watchtower went and what the comments were like, especially in regards to disfellowshipped family members.

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  leaving_quietly

  I kept thinking about this passage at Matthew 12:1-12
  

  At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples got hungry and started to pluck heads of grain and to eat. 2 At seeing this, the Pharisees said to him: “Look! Your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath.” 3 He said to them: “Have you not read what David did when he and the men with him were hungry? 4 How he entered into the house of God and they ate the loaves of presentation, something that it was not lawful for him or those with him to eat, but for the priests only? 5 Or have you not read in the Law that on the Sabbaths the priests in the temple violate the Sabbath and continue guiltless? 6 But I tell you that something greater than the temple is here. 7 However, if you had understood what this means, ‘I want mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless ones. 8 For the Son of man is Lord of the Sabbath.”
  9 After departing from that place, he went into their synagogue, 10 and look! there was a man with a withered hand! So they asked him, “Is it lawful to cure on the Sabbath?” so that they might accuse him. 11 He said to them: “If you have one sheep and that sheep falls into a pit on the Sabbath, is there a man among you who will not grab hold of it and lift it out? 12 How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do a fine thing on the Sabbath.”
  
  
  
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  10

  Usage of FDS and Faithful Slave.

  by runForever in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

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  leaving_quietly

  You should probably include "faithful slave" and "slave class" in your count. Next, do one on "governing body".

  It is interesting that 2014 saw the lowest occurrences of the FDS variants in many years (9 total). Even "governing body" was on the low side (23). I'm counting occurrences in The Watchtower only, not in other publications.
  
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  35

  Site Update: Jan 10, 2015

  by Simon in

  1. forum
  2. announcements

  i've made some updates to the user section of the site.

  besides some cosmetic tweaks the most notable new feature is the ability to see a listing of the topics someone has posted on - this includes topics they started as well as topics they replied to.. it will look like this when you go to a user page or your own profile page:.

  simon.

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  leaving_quietly

  Are the topics started and posted on sync'd with the old site? I ask because it says I have only started 1 topic and posted 31 times. I think that's since the new site debuted. Although topics posted shows all the topics. I think something isn't linking quite right. Maybe it's just my account???

  Still... great job on the new forum.