Bobcat

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Posts by Bobcat

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  9

  WTBTS "Anointed" Resurrection Fallacy

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  based on the following statements of the wtbts, the first resurrection began in 1918, is ongoing, and ceases when the living anointed are taken to heaven - just before armageddon..

  (w88 10/15 p. 12 par.

  13) "....according to all the evidence, those of the anointed who had already died faithful began to be resurrected to their promised place in the heavenly sanctuary starting in 1918.".

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  Bobcat

  Propaganda lesson 1:

  To make your opinions true, always preface them with this phrase:

  ....according to all the evidence....
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  24

  Been witnessing today - first time in over 2 years!!

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  and it felt wonderful!!.

  i went into the city to where i knew there was a "cosmopolitan witnessing" trolley, because i wanted to ask a simple bible-based question.

  the trolley was attended by an elder and a sister who was another elder's wife.

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  Bobcat

  it-2 788-89 gives the WT's convoluted explanation of John 5:29. That is on the WT Library app.
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  24

  Been witnessing today - first time in over 2 years!!

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  and it felt wonderful!!.

  i went into the city to where i knew there was a "cosmopolitan witnessing" trolley, because i wanted to ask a simple bible-based question.

  the trolley was attended by an elder and a sister who was another elder's wife.

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  Bobcat

  Slim, Searcher was using the WT's interpretation of John 5:29. The irony that I saw in Searcher's post was the elder's natural response to the reading of John 5:29 was different from the WT's interpretation. Unfortunately (for the elder), his WT Library app only uses recent (2000 and forward) publications.

  (John 5:28, 29 NWT) . . .Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

  In the WT's interpretation, "those who did good things. . . those who practiced vile things. . ." refers to what they did after they "come out" of the "memorial tombs." This interpretation makes nonsense of the verb tenses, According to the WT, the people come out of the tombs and then the viewpoint suddenly shifts to the end of the 1000 years and looks back at what happened during that time where people 'practice good or vile things.' The WT needs this to be explained this way because in WT theology only the 144,000 get life right away. The "great crowd," despite having served God all their lives in this system, when they get into the Millennium, they suddenly become no better off than every pagan who never gave God a second thought.

  What Jesus is saying is that those who practice good or vile things now will have different outcomes when they are resurrected. The 'good . . . vile' saying is a merism, like saying "I searched high and low" or "lock, stock and barrell." John 5:29 includes everyone by referring to the two opposite extremes.

  
  
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  6

  FOLLOWING/WALKING BEHIND

  by somebody in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  according to this publication published by none other than those who want to gain followers of themselves, christ assigned the preaching work to themselves and not jehovah's witnesses.. *** w07 4/1 pp.

  24-25 loyal to christ and his faithful slave ***.

  giving loyal support.

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  Bobcat

  See my post here (different board - I posted this here but can't find it via the search function). It helps explain why the WT wants only a few (i.e. themselves) "anointed" and the rest not. (Contrast Acts 2:38-39; John 1:12-13)
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  29

  Who is attending the 2016 Annual Meeting this Saturday?

  by Londo111 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm curious if we will have eyewitness reporters at the stanley theater like we do every year....

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  Bobcat

  There was a thread awhile back that indicated that a GB member said that there was going to be an announcement that would be disappointing to some. It might involve the ending of the pioneer service school. But that is hearsay at best. I've heard nothing official.
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  46

  Updates to Public Talk Outlines 2 & 3

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  will you be a survivor of the last days?.

  serving with jehovah’s unified organization.

  move ahead with jehovah’s unified organization.

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  Bobcat

  bttt - Public Talk Outlines
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  43

  How Will Armageddon Begin?

  by Cold Steel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  and how long will it last?

  and who will come after that, yahweh, as the old testament says or jesus, as the new testament says?

  the scriptures say he'll come to the mount of olives, but surely that's a spiritual mount of olives.

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  Bobcat

  You might want to start from a fresh point of view. The OP's question is flawed to begin with. (Not blaming the OP for that - nor is even the WT the originator of the flaw.)

  Rev 16:16 describes Armageddon as a place (Gk topos - from which we get "topography"). You usually do not speak of, 'when does some place begin.' Although, sometimes events (including battles) are referred to by the name of the place they occurred (Waterloo, Normandy, et al).

  The context of Rev 16 has 'kings and their armies' gathered to a place (vs. 16), then God saying 'it is finished' (vs. 17), then a series of events occur (vss. 18-21). (All/each of the events are preceded by "and" (Gk kai - a conjunction), in a pattern that looks much like a rhetorical device called polysyndeton. Each conjunction in the list separates each item.

  As an example of one of the WT's flaws in interpretation, they take the first phrase of Rev 16:19 ("And the great city was split/became into three") and say it is describing the third phrase of that same verse ('And Babylon the Great was handed the cup of God's wrath'). Under the rhetorical device of polysyndeton, each of these phrases would be an event separate from the other.

  In other words, Armageddon is a "place" where several related (as a result of God's saying 'it is finished') events occur. Using the following descriptive explanations in Rev chapters 17-19, the "war" that occurs, as described in Rev 19:11-21, equates with the metaphors described in Rev 16:20, 21. (Where the removal of mountains and islands (Rev 16:20) would picture the defeat of the kings and their armies in Rev 19:19, 20, and the people being pelted with hailstones (Rev 16:21) would equate with 'the rest being killed off' in Rev 19:21.

  The 'kings and their armies being gathered to Armageddon' would occur before God has said "it is finished."
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  19

  New blood cards came to our hall today

  by LevelThePlayingField in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  at the end of the meeting an elder, by way of announcements said there is a new blood document that he said would be passed out to every baptized member of the congregation by way of their service group overseer.

  i knew this day was coming, just had no idea of when.

  he said it was a simplified version and sure to make you sign up for suicide.

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  Bobcat

  bttt
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  18

  VERTIGO: 'My head is moving through space where, in reality, it is not.'

  by compound complex in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  greetings, fellow posters:.

  wishing you well and offering my sympathy if you've ever experienced vertigo.

  my neighbor is a physical therapist and told me about the epley maneuver, which i am now researching.. have you ever been through this hell of total incapacitation?.

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  Bobcat

  Had it (several times) whilst flying (that is, operating an aircraft). Fortunately always had a co-pilot or flight instructor when it happened (one time at night going into a very dark LZ). In fact, flight instructors sometimes attempt to bring it on so that you can experience it and recognize it.

  I could imagine it is very unsettling for it to happen in ordinary circumstances.
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  58

  Download Raymond Franz PDF Books Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom

  by Tenacious in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for those who've never read these incredible books by our friend ray franz.. here are links for both.

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  happy reading!.

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  Bobcat

  Thank you, Tenacious!