And if they weren't shunned by God for not getting 1914 right (in their current view), wouldn't it be appropriate for them to cut some slack to those who even now have a problem with 1914?
Instead, they behave like the slave in Mt 18:23-35.
Posts by Bobcat
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22First 3 Presidents never knew JC began his reign as King in 1914 ?
by smiddy3 inthe first 3 presidents of the i.b.s.a ./ jehovah`s witnesses / wtb&ts.. w.h.conley ,c.t.russell ,j.f.rutherford .. how many jehovah`s witnesses know that ?
how many ex jehovah`s witnesses knew that ?
the wt society teaches that jesus returned to begin his "invisible presence" in 1914 directing his attention toward the earth as ruling king.
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The Genesis account again proved WRONG
by opusdei1972 inaccording to the watchtower's insight encyclopedia : .
the catastrophic destruction of men and animals by an overwhelming flood in the days of noah, 2370 b.c.e.
this greatest cataclysm in all human history was sent by jehovah because wicked men had filled the earth with violence.
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Do We Get A Clean Slate When We Die? (Watchtower View Examined)
by Sea Breeze inthe watchtower teaches that the opportunity to be born again and enjoy complete justification with god ended in 1935, having been limited to only 144k since pentecost.
so, it is very surprising that the watchtower embraces the death that is described in romans chapter 6, since this is the very death that is required to be born again…… which is denied to watchtower members!
romans chapter 6, verse 7 is about saying goodbye to the old personality, the “old man” in the king james version.
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Bobcat
The WT misunderstanding can be seen in the NWT rendering of Rom 6:7. It says "... acquitted from his sin." At least in the older NWT "his" was in brackets ( "[his]" ). But the newer one has taken the brackets out.
The english rendering in the KIT has "the sin" where the definite article is actually feminine (τῆς) because the greek word for sin is feminine and usually left untranslated, since in english we would not normally say "the sin" unless we were speaking about a specific sin. (Compare here.)
In Rom 6:7 "sin" is being spoken of as a force operating within a person, so that, when a person literally dies he would no longer be subject to that force. And thus, according to Paul's argument, if a person has figuratively died (thru baptism) he should no longer live as if he were still under the control of sin. His figurative death has "freed" him from sin.
"Acquitted" is also misleading, and based on the WT's misunderstanding of the passage. But the WT would correctly counter-argue that "acquitted" is a possible rendering of the word. So you wouldn't get anywhere trying to argue with the WT. They are smug in their self assurance that they are right.
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Where is the school for the 144,000?
by RULES & REGULATIONS inthe watchtower has many schools to teach their members on how to become more effective in various assignments in jehovah's organization.
they are trained to strengthen and help the congregations and branches around the world.
here is a list of some of the schools the society run:.
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Where is the school for the 144,000?
by RULES & REGULATIONS inthe watchtower has many schools to teach their members on how to become more effective in various assignments in jehovah's organization.
they are trained to strengthen and help the congregations and branches around the world.
here is a list of some of the schools the society run:.
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Bobcat
Hi R&R,
are you implying that there are literal, breathing human members on this earth that are part of the 144,000 and that the Governing Body dismiss them so that the ''remnant'' are silenced and put off to the side?
Actually, no. No one alive on earth is of the 144,000. But some explanation is in order.
The 144,000 of Rev 7:1-8 are a sub-group "sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel." (Rev 7:4 rNWT) "Out of" is the Greek preposition ek. It is used numerous times in Rev 7:4-8 to describe the grouping of 12,000 "out of" each tribe. WT would have you believe that the 144,000 make up that whole nation. But "out of" indicates that they are a smaller group or sub-group "out of" a larger group called "every tribe of the sons of Israel." This can be seen from Rev 7:9 where the "great crowd" are described as being "out of" (same preposition) every nation and tribe and people and language."
It is easy to see that the "great crowd" are a sub-group "out of" a larger grouping that comprises all of humanity. In the same way, "every tribe of the sons of Israel" is a sub-group "out of" a larger group comprised of all of humanity. And the 144,000 are a sub-group "out of" the sub-group that is called every tribe of the sons of Israel."
Now, some think that "every tribe of the sons of Israel" refers to natural Jews. Some (like me) believe they are Christians. But that is unimportant for this post. What is important is to see that the 144,000 are a sub-grouping of "every tribe of the sons of Israel."
As I pointed out above, the WT teaches that the 144,000 are the whole of "the sons of Israel." And they teach that only these 144,000 are anointed with God's Spirit. And from that they want JWs to assume that the leadership is of this 144,000 and that the leadership is anointed with God's Spirit. Every one else are merely friends of these and need to be subservient to these ones if they want to gain life and be friends of God.
This is the gist of the WT's power structure over all of JWs. And this is why they do their best to discourage anyone else from thinking they are anointed and from partaking at the Memorial (which the WT sees as the sole privilege of the 144,000).
The truth is that being baptized in the Spirit is part and parcel with the New Covenant. But it is available to all. (Acts 2:38-39) It is available to all who have faith. But JWs (most of them anyways) have had that faith drilled out of them by the WT. The WT finds them more useful without it. Eventually there has to be some repercussions for that for the GB and the WT. (Jas 3:1)
The giving of the Spirit was the one thing that would make the New Covenant better than the Old Covenant. This was foretold by the prophets. (Jer 31:31-34; Ezek 36:24-29) And this is why Jesus chided Nicodemus for being a "teacher in Israel" and yet not understanding this coming change. (Jn 3:5, 9-10) Jesus said that being born of "water and spirit" was a prerequisite to 'entering the kingdom' (Jn 3:5), which the disciples later understood to mean 'being saved' and 'entering into life.' (Mt 19:16, 17, 23-25)
I'm sorry for the length of this post, but it is necessary to see that. (And I want any lurkers to see this also.) The WT wants its followers to think that being born of the Spirit is only necessary to be in the New Covenant and to rule with Jesus in heaven. There is truth in the idea that being born of the Spirit is part of being in the New Covenant. But the idea that only 144,000 would be in the New Covenant is a huge distortion of what the NT teaches. Paul spoke of those in the New Covenant eventually outnumbering those in the Old Covenant. (Gal 4:21-27)
But back to the 144,000. Rev 7:1-8; 14:1-5 say nothing about being born of the Spirit. If "every tribe of the sons of Israel" does represent Christianity, then, according to NT teaching, all of them would be born of the Spirit, not just the 144,000. The 144,000, as a sub-group, are distinct from the larger group in some way. They have some experience that is unique to them. And if what I said in my previous post is correct, that is, if Rev 7:1-8 is an expansion on Rev 6:9-11, then, the 144,000 represent the "full number" of those who are martyred as Christians. Their "song" that only they know (Rev 14:3) would likely be related to that unique experience of being faithful Christian martyrs.
And thus, assuming all this to be the case, no one alive on earth would be of that group, simply due to the fact that they were still alive. God would know who He would allow to be of that group. (Compare Mt 20:22, 23) And He would also know whether some who had been martyred were qualified as such. For example, during Nero's purge of Christians in 64-68 CE, there were likely Christians who were swept up and slaughtered in the persecution but were living double lives and/or secretly unfaithful in some way. Such ones would not fit the description of the 144,000 in Rev 14:4, 5. So that it would be impossible for any human to calculate how far along it was in the gathering of the 144,000. The "sealing" of them (Rev 7:3, 4) would indicate when they had been included in that number. (And thus, had been martyred.) Only God (and possibly Christ) would have inside information on the progress of the gathering of the 144,000. (And thus, the "sealing" of Rev 7:3, 4 is no secondary anointing which the WT teaches but the NT says nothing about. (Compare Eph 4:30)
I'm sorry for the long winded explanation. But I know that there are numerous lurkers who would find this subject of interest since the WT controls their life as Christians with all of their distortions.
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Where is the school for the 144,000?
by RULES & REGULATIONS inthe watchtower has many schools to teach their members on how to become more effective in various assignments in jehovah's organization.
they are trained to strengthen and help the congregations and branches around the world.
here is a list of some of the schools the society run:.
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Bobcat
You get the sense from all this that the WT really sees the topic of the 144,000 (and partaking at the Memorial) as directly related to their (earthly) rulership over the R&F. And they don't wish to share that with anyone.
There is another possible irony in all this. Some commentaries understand Revelation chapter 7 to be an excursus of sorts. The topic of the 144,000 (Rev 7:1-8) is understood to be an expansion on the question raised in the 5th seal (Rev 6:9-11). And the topic of the great crowd (Rev 7:9-17) is an expansion on the question raised in the 6th seal (Rev 6:17).
If understood that way, the 144,000 are martyrs (Rev 6:11). Which, by implication, means that none of the GB, past or present, are of that group.
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"Great Reset" and the Borg
by mikeflood inwow, just watched a video from the 'world economic forum' , a respectable organization by the way, not the usual conspiracy lunatic theorist.
it says that by 2030 meat is gonna be a treat not widely available like today, that the us is not gonna be a global superpower anymore, instead a handful of countries will dominate and that people is not gonna own nothing but will be happy.. well, that would help the borg to keep the craziness going on.. thoughts?
what's this great reset?.
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Bobcat
The Great Reset looks a lot like pure communism, as Marx imagined it. But Lenin, the realist, saw that tyranny was required first in order to purge the world of all its anti-communist elements ("The Tyranny of the Masses"). Those pushing for the "Great Reset" cannot see as far as Lenin did. Otherwise, they would see what the Great Reset would inevitably lead to.
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New JW study book / method announced on JW Broadcast
by Funky inso did anyone catch the january jw broadcast?.
it's the "spiritual content" of what would have been introduced in the october annual meeting, had the october annual meeting taken place.. morris, splane, and jackson introduce a new jw study publication: "live forever eternally - an interactive guide".. details were sparse, but apparently it is a 256 page book (when in actual printed form), primarily designed to be used in its electronic form, stuffed with links to videos.. it is designed to be "just one book" to be studied prior to baptism, where "all 60 questions that baptism candidates have to know" are found in just one place.. the purported reason is to make jw "bible" studies more "productive", i.e., lead to more baptisms.. splane brought out the governing body's "great concern" that 10 million+ "bible" studies are conducted by jws every year, but the number of baptisms has been stuck at 200,000 - 300,000 per year for decades.
so the thinking is, this new book + a "new method of conducting studies" (again, no real detail, but apparently it involves more "discussion" and less "question and answer").. want to know my thoughts?
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Bobcat
Hi Smiddy,
Here is a PDF of the Didache. It didn't have all the extra WT stuff in it. That's why I said "the particular doctrines aside."
The Didache was more keyed towards Christian living without the convoluted prophetic WT stuff. It was also rather terse in its instructions compared with WT literature. The main prophetic idea in the Didache was the waiting for the Lord's return. Prophetic details and calculations cannot be found in it.
There are a lot of curiosities in the Didache, when compared to the WT. For example, it gives instruction and warning on who should't be given the Eucharist, but assumes that all baptized believers would partake.
Be that as it may, my idea in the comparison above was the movement by WT in simplifying by having just one publication for new converts. I'm sure it will still be bloated with WT speculation that is being passed off as "truth."
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New JW study book / method announced on JW Broadcast
by Funky inso did anyone catch the january jw broadcast?.
it's the "spiritual content" of what would have been introduced in the october annual meeting, had the october annual meeting taken place.. morris, splane, and jackson introduce a new jw study publication: "live forever eternally - an interactive guide".. details were sparse, but apparently it is a 256 page book (when in actual printed form), primarily designed to be used in its electronic form, stuffed with links to videos.. it is designed to be "just one book" to be studied prior to baptism, where "all 60 questions that baptism candidates have to know" are found in just one place.. the purported reason is to make jw "bible" studies more "productive", i.e., lead to more baptisms.. splane brought out the governing body's "great concern" that 10 million+ "bible" studies are conducted by jws every year, but the number of baptisms has been stuck at 200,000 - 300,000 per year for decades.
so the thinking is, this new book + a "new method of conducting studies" (again, no real detail, but apparently it involves more "discussion" and less "question and answer").. want to know my thoughts?
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Bobcat
From a practical standpoint (the particular doctrines aside), I can see it. It reminds me of the Didache.
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I have read and re read acts chap.15 and for the life of me I can't find the part about the 1st century governing body!
by nowwhat? ini cannot find the verse where it talks about several self appointed men that went behind closed doors to render their decision regarding circumcision.
all i see is that it was the apostles, older men and the congregation that came to a decision.
perfect example of why we need the governing body today.
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