Posts by Bobcat

27

From Noah to Jerusalem: What is: Abstain from Blood?

by Terry in

at a certain point in time, in the 1st century c.e., the two groups of humanity stood face to face: the covenant jews and the noahide gentiles.. they were about to join hands for the first time by being grafted together under a belief in jesus as the redeemer of both groups.. .

this raised a conflict which needed to be settled.. .

the conflict was this:.

Bobcat

That "abstain from....blood' meant "thou shalt not kill" is imaginable at Acts15 and has been proposed before but I doubt it.

Terry, I was thinking along the same lines as you. My reasoning was in part because it would coincide better with the covenant made with Noah in Genesis chapter 9. But, IMO, it would also better fit the immediate and larger context of Acts.

My reasoning is as follows:

(1) In the book of Acts, every mention of "blood," besides in regard to this directive, has reference to blood guilt or in some way connected to the shedding of blood, not the eating/consuming of it.

These are the occurrances of "blood" in Acts: 1:19; 2:19; 2:20; 5:28;15:20, 29; 18:6; 20:26, 28; 21:25; 22:20

They break down to:

15:20, 29; 21:25 - The letter/directive from Jerusalem

1:19 - Judas' field of blood (from Judas' bloody death)

2:19, 20 - figurative, but drawing on the color of blood

5:28; 18:6; 20:26; - blood guilt

20:28 - Jesus' shed blood, thus related to murder

22:20 - Stephan's shed blood, thus related to murder

(2) In the directive itself (in Acts 15), it mentions "abstain from ... things strangled," which is an obvious reference to eating/consuming blood. If "abstain ... from blood" also refers to consuming, then, you have an overlap of commands. This, to me, doesn't make sense given the fact that the writers were trying to minimize the number of stipulations for Gentiles. If "from blood" meant consumption, then, "from things strangled" would become an unnecessary repitition. (or visa versa)

It would be good to keep in mind that the letter as reported in Acts may very well be just a brief synopsis of a more detailed actual letter. This might account for the missing verbs in "abstain from ... [stuff]".

Also, the command, as reported by the writer of Acts, was "abstain from ... carefully keep yourselves from ... " Gentile converts would already be aware of the need to "keep themselves from" immorality, idolatry, murder and so forth. These were basic teachings of Christianity. The purpose of the letter was more likely to make the Gentiles aware of areas that they would consider "grey areas", but were outright forbidden for Jews. One example that comes to mind in regard to murder would be the treatment of slaves. The Jewish Law had a comparatively humane way of treating slaves, whereas Roman laws were comparatively brutal. A gentile growing up under Roman law might not be as sensitive towards slaves as his Jewish counterpart. Same way for immorality. For a Jew, everything outside of marriage was immoral. But gentile might see a more blurred picture of what was classified as immoral. (1 Cor 5:1 is a good example of this difference in viewpoint.)

Take Care

33

Will they get rid of the FDS concept?

by Hermano in

what do they need the fds concept for?

it's a weak idea, based on one scripture which is a rhetorical question.

they've already published several articles indicating that just because you are annointed doesn't mean you have any special insight, so they've already disconnected annointed from leadership.

Bobcat

King Solomon said:

Interestingly, the NWT is the ONLY translation that translates the phrase as, "faithful and DISCREET servant"; ALL the others translate it as "faithful and WISE servant".

Just a compilation for the thought you made. Here is how the NWT translates in all its occurrances: (phronimos)

Mt 7:24 Discreet
Mt 10:16 Cautious
Mt 24:45 Discreet
Mt 25:2, 4, 8, 9 Discreet
Lk 12:42 Discreet
Lu 16:8 Practical wisdom
Ro 11:25 Discreet
Ro 12:16 Discreet
1C 4:10 Discreet
1C 10:15 Discernment
2C 11:19 Reasonable

Here is how various dictionarys define the word:

AMG definition: (phronimos) to think, have a mindset. Prudent, sensible, practically wise in relationships with others (Mt 7:24; 10:16; 24:45; 25:2, 4, 8, 9; Lu 12:42; 16:8; 1Cor 10:15. In an evil sense, thinking oneself to be prudent or wise because of self-complacency (Rom 11:25; 12:16; used ironically in 1 Cor 4:10; 2Cor 11:19)

BDAG definition: pertaining to understanding associated with insight and wisdom, sensible, thoughtful, prudent, wise.

The New Strong's definition: thoughtful, i.e. sagacious or discreet (implying a cautious character)

Vines definition: Prudent, sensible, practically wise

Louw & Nida definition: Pertaining to understanding resulting from insight and wisdom - wise, wisely, with understanding, with insight

Take Care

14

Those 50+ years of age ... don't overexert in service

by bats in the belfry in

take this to heart:.

but after the age of fifty years he will retire from the service company and serve no longer.

and he must minister to his brothers in the tent of meeting in taking care of the obligation, but he must render no service.

Bobcat

"But after the age of fifty years he will retire from the service company and serve no longer. And he must minister to his brothers in the tent of meeting in taking care of the obligation, but he must render no service. In accord with this you will do to the Levites in their obligations."

Numbers 8:25, 26

30

Why do so many major characters in the NT change their jewish name to a greek one ?

by mP in

cephas/simon -> peter.

saul -> paul.

jesus -> christ.

Bobcat

mP:

Given much of the history in the Bible is written after the event its not a surprise to find names match the supposed attributes or achievements of the character.

I think Nimrod (meaning something about rebellion) would possibly be an example of someone who earned his name by his conduct. (Many believe this, anyways.) There may be other examples. Some think Job was named after the fact.

In the case of Jesus (son of Mary and Joseph), you had people who were still alive that knew him personally or knew of him while he was alive. (Compare 1 Cor 15:3 - 6) This would have made it difficult to write the earlier NT books if he was given the name Jesus after the fact. And if the later writings (perhaps Revelation and the letters of John) had swithed names, they would have broken the continuity of the new religion. More likely, they would have been rejected as authentic Chritian documents for introducing a new name or new gospel.

Another thought that came to me concerning Jesus was that he had birth/family records maintained by the Jews. Up till 70CE, these would have made a name change on his part very problematic since some of his credentials were based on his family line and city of origin.

30

Why do so many major characters in the NT change their jewish name to a greek one ?

by mP in

cephas/simon -> peter.

saul -> paul.

jesus -> christ.

Bobcat

mP:

"Well Jesus is not really a name its also a title"

Jesus is the Greek form of the Hebrew name Joshua (Yeshua). It was a personal name versus a title, but it does have etymological meaning (Jehovah/Yahweh is salvation/savior) I think most translations use "Jesus" for Jesus simply to maintain a distinction with Joshua (Moses successor) and for reasons of common usage.

Interestingly, the name "Jesus" has also been turned into an expletive.

Edited to add: Blondie beat me to the punch.

8

Inconsistency: Tower of Babel vs. space program

by tootired2care in

several years back i remember listening to a public talk.

the title of the talk escapes me; but one of the points (albeit wierd) that was brought out, is that the part of the mytholgy behind the symbol of apollo was defiance of god.

he made this jump by linking apollo with ishtar (nimrods wife) wife somehow...he used this point in connection with the nasa space program to make the point, that the space exploration was a defiant action against god, as a modern day like nimrod account.

Bobcat

TooTired2Care:

On the surface, you have a valid point. The space program, aviation in general, skyscrapers - they are all far more daring than anything Nimrod and his crew attempted. So, based on the statement that you quoted from Malachi 3:6, one would think that there would be an appropriate response from Jehovah.

You might say, too, that modern man has brushed off God more so than Nimrod and his bunch. The statement in Genesis 11:4 ("for fear we may be scattered over all the surface of the earth") seems to have them at least acknowledging the possibility that God might intervene in their affairs rather than blithely assuming that God will simply bless their efforts. (To me, that presents them as having a somewhat grudging respect for God.)

At any rate, I know some will cover the ideas that it is just a hokey story. I'll let them do that. I was going to offer a different possibility, that is, that the Genesis chapter 11 account does not contain the entire story about why God acted in the way He did.

As an example, the story about the defection in Eden in Genesis chapter 3 does not bring in any information about Satan the Devil. You have to read about that in other places. If the entire Bible is authored by just one person, namely God (many will contend that, but your question in your initial post presupposes that to be true), but if you accept that as a premise in your question, then, the reason for the omission of extra information has to be intentional. That is to say, God only wanted to say so much about it at that point in Genesis. Any seeming conflict in the way God has acted is just that. It only appears that he has acted in a contradictory fasion because of not being aware of all of His motives/reasons. Such misunderstandings happen between humans all the time.

I'll also add, that the commentary you heard in a public talk was just the speakers impression or opinion. Nor does the Society understand why God acted the way He did in Genesis chapter 11, beyond what the chapter says about it. I can say that because they haven't been able to answer the question you posed.

Take Care

30

Why do so many major characters in the NT change their jewish name to a greek one ?

by mP in

cephas/simon -> peter.

saul -> paul.

jesus -> christ.

Bobcat

mP:

Just to acknowledge your question and that Leo answered for me. Thanks for the thread, by the way.

Take Care

375

The Governing Body intends to announce significant changes in academic literature (DOCTRINES) - Brazil

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

dear randall.

good morning!.

here is the daniel of brazil (former bethel).. this week at the forum of former jehovah's witnesses had an interesting news!

Bobcat

I would suggest that the changes are not about religious doctrine. From the Society's viewpoint, there was never any question that the R&F had to accept their Biblical understanding.

More likely they involve organizational procedures, conventions (especially the DC), and literature - things that involve expenses to the Society, but are part of JW day to day life. These are things that would require "acceptance."

30

Why do so many major characters in the NT change their jewish name to a greek one ?

by mP in

cephas/simon -> peter.

saul -> paul.

jesus -> christ.

Bobcat

In Simon's case it was Jesus who gave him the name Cephas/Peter. (John 1:42) Later, Jesus gave meaning to the name. (Matthew 16:13-19)

60

Do Jehovah's Witnesses know what happened to them in 1954?

by Terry in

1954: the year jehovah's witnesses stopped worshiping jesus christ.

watchtower charter: http://www.jehovah.net.au/books/1945_cha..._wtbts.pdf.

did you know that from 1879 until 1954 the writings of c.t.russell, j.f.rutherford, nathan knorr and the watchtower's own charter all agreed that jesus christ was worthy of worship?.

Bobcat

The correct WT Charter Link is http://www.jehovah.net.au/books/1945_Charter_of_WTBTS.pdf

The specific wording about worshiping Jesus is on the paragraph that ends page one and continues over to page two. If you go to the end of that paragraph on page two and count up four lines you will find the wording.

Most interesting thread Terry.