Posts by Bobcat

39

The Christian Hope--Is it in Heaven or on Earth?

by DS211 in

so is the christian hope in heaven or on earth?.

in acts chapter 1the question was raised: 6 so when they had assembled, they asked him: lord, are you restoring the kingdom to israel at this time?

7 he said to them: it does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the father has placed in his own jurisdiction.. notice jesus never said thered be a change in venue, just that it wasnt up to them to know when..... so what is there from both sides?

Bobcat

I was wondering if a list of verses that might give the idea of a heavenly destiny could be compiled on this thread so as to get a fuller picture of where things stand.

As Searcher pointed out, some of the verses could be taken in two ways. For example, Hebrews 3:1 refers to the "heavenly calling." This could be taken as a call for the disciple to 'go to heaven' or as a call 'originating from' heaven. Similarly, some might take Jesus' words to 'store up treasures in heaven' as meaning that they will end up there. Others could just as well take those words as having a meaning something like, 'placing your hope in God as oposed to worldly hopes,' with no reference to where the disciple would eventually end up.

A complete list of all such verses would allow one to seperate which ones could be taken either way and which ones would necessarily require a heavenly or earthly destiny. And then the contexts could be analyzed.

Take Care

16

Why does the WT insist that the first five books of the bible were written by Moses?

by marmot in

any biblical scholar worth his salt will tell you otherwise, and it's not as if this is a new concept.

as early as the 1700s people were noticing that the first books of the bible had numerous authors.

tell that to an elder, though, and you'll be booted for apostasy faster than you can say spanish inquisition.

Bobcat

Here seems to be a fair handed discussion of the controversy for those wishing to familiarize themselves with it.

32

Undeclared changes to the 2013 NWT

by Doug Mason in

in the following from the 2013 edition of the nwt, the watchtower society indicates that when it released its initial 1950 edition, it considered the greek text provided by westcott and hort as its master text.

as a result of these additional masters, the wts made some undeclared changes to the 2013 nwt.

it does not list these changes or give any explanations.. greek text: in the late 19th century, scholars b. f. westcott and f.j.a.

Bobcat

No doubt many of these scholars would be christian themselves . . .

Numerous times I've shown some commentary material to my wife (ususally some point that corresponds to some WT view - only the commentary will often explain it more thoroughly) and the response has been (sometimes at least), 'I wonder why he's not in the truth?'

Very curious, indeed.

16

WT Study for January 6-12, 2014

by Bobcat in

as a heads up for those who are present for the wt study of january 12, 2014, this thread has information and links to material that has an impact on that study article.. pages 12, 13, pp.

9-14 is a subtitle dealing with a supposed future cry of "peace & security.

" for a detailed analysis with comments on numerous aspects of that subject see this thread.. this post on page two of this thread has a copy of the above wt sub-title dealing with the "peace & security" prophecy as the wt understands it..

Bobcat

Paragraph 1 has this statement in it:

WHEN the Messianic Kingdom was established in 1914, Satan’s system entered its final days. As a result of the war in heaven, Jesus hurled the Devil and the demons down to the vicinity of the earth. (Read Revelation 12:7-9.) Satan knows that he has only “a short period of time.” (Rev. 12:12)

But see this post and the links provided there for Scriptural evidence that Jesus was enthroned shortly after going back to heaven in the 1st century.

This post has a list of verses dealing with "parousia" as applied to Jesus which highlights that "parousia" or "presence" is not associated with Jesus being crowned as king.

This post has some scholarly commentary on the gospel phrase, "the Kingdom of God/Heaven has drawn near," and implications for when the "Kingdom of God/Heaven" was to begin operation.

This post has a list of verses relating to the idea of "last days" and how the writers of those verses saw themselves in relation to that time period.

16

WT Study for January 6-12, 2014

by Bobcat in

as a heads up for those who are present for the wt study of january 12, 2014, this thread has information and links to material that has an impact on that study article.. pages 12, 13, pp.

9-14 is a subtitle dealing with a supposed future cry of "peace & security.

" for a detailed analysis with comments on numerous aspects of that subject see this thread.. this post on page two of this thread has a copy of the above wt sub-title dealing with the "peace & security" prophecy as the wt understands it..

Bobcat

As a heads up for those who are present for the WT Study of January 12, 2014, this thread has information and links to material that has an impact on that study article.

Pages 12, 13, pp. 9-14 is a subtitle dealing with a supposed future cry of "peace & security." For a detailed analysis with comments on numerous aspects of that subject see this thread.

This post on page two of this thread has a copy of the above WT sub-title dealing with the "peace & security" prophecy as the WT understands it.

32

Undeclared changes to the 2013 NWT

by Doug Mason in

in the following from the 2013 edition of the nwt, the watchtower society indicates that when it released its initial 1950 edition, it considered the greek text provided by westcott and hort as its master text.

as a result of these additional masters, the wts made some undeclared changes to the 2013 nwt.

it does not list these changes or give any explanations.. greek text: in the late 19th century, scholars b. f. westcott and f.j.a.

Bobcat

So in John 17: 3 they have dropped " Taking in knowledge of you"

Actually, it has been moved to footnote status.

32

Undeclared changes to the 2013 NWT

by Doug Mason in

in the following from the 2013 edition of the nwt, the watchtower society indicates that when it released its initial 1950 edition, it considered the greek text provided by westcott and hort as its master text.

as a result of these additional masters, the wts made some undeclared changes to the 2013 nwt.

it does not list these changes or give any explanations.. greek text: in the late 19th century, scholars b. f. westcott and f.j.a.

Bobcat

So in John 17: 3 they have dropped " Taking in knowledge of you"

Actually, it has been moved to footnote status.

32

Undeclared changes to the 2013 NWT

by Doug Mason in

in the following from the 2013 edition of the nwt, the watchtower society indicates that when it released its initial 1950 edition, it considered the greek text provided by westcott and hort as its master text.

as a result of these additional masters, the wts made some undeclared changes to the 2013 nwt.

it does not list these changes or give any explanations.. greek text: in the late 19th century, scholars b. f. westcott and f.j.a.

Bobcat

88JM:

From what I've seen so far (in the links I included above) all the changes in the RNWT favor UBS/Nestle-Arland over WH, as it should be; the WH is somewhat outdated by comparison. UBS/Nestle-Arland have the advantage of all the textual criticsm of the 20th century.

Take Care

32

Undeclared changes to the 2013 NWT

by Doug Mason in

in the following from the 2013 edition of the nwt, the watchtower society indicates that when it released its initial 1950 edition, it considered the greek text provided by westcott and hort as its master text.

as a result of these additional masters, the wts made some undeclared changes to the 2013 nwt.

it does not list these changes or give any explanations.. greek text: in the late 19th century, scholars b. f. westcott and f.j.a.

Bobcat

Doug:

Here were several discussions on changes:

Ephesians 1:15
Christ Jesus vs. Jesus Christ
Matthew 21:29, 30
"As often as" in 1 Cor 11:25, 26 changed to "whenever," but still "as often as" in Rev 11:6. This one appears to be more for supporting the Society's Memorial frequency view.
A little on John 17:3 here (and my wish for it here.)

Another change I noticed, but not associated with Greek texts per se, they removed the capitalizing of plural pronouns (such as "YOU" if it was plural) and plural verbs. An example of a capitalized plural verb is Luke 17:32 - "REMEMBER" in the older one, and "Remember" in the newer one. I kinda liked this feature, but I know that some who weren't familiar with the reason for doing this would come up with alternate reasons for why this was done. For example, some would say that "REMEMBER" in Luke 17:32 was capitalized because the Society wanted to emphasize the need for following this instruction.

Take Care

443

The 1914 generation is still going strong 100 years later - 2014 study article.

by THE GLADIATOR in

january 2014 watchtower study article.

let your kingdom comebut when?.

this generation will not pass away.

Bobcat

Simple English. Comapare the great tribulation in Jerusalem with the great tribulation in Noah's day. Which was GREATER? See?

For lurkers: - See here for an analysis of the wording and context of Matthew 24:21 and whether it would absolutely have to have some fulfillment outside of its context.