Posts by okage

16

Question regarding parental obligation to report to authorities

by gbrn in

i am relatively new to the forum, and not quite as familiar with all of the ins and outs of jw culture as many of you are, so i apologize if this is an ignorant question.

it is quite apparent the wt has handled child abuse allegations in a horrible way, viewing it as sin as opposed to a crime.

after an allegation is reported to the elders, and they are not required by law to report to the authorities, why don't parents simply go to the authorities themselves and report the crime.

okage

Referencing the 2010 Elder's Manual "Shepherd the Flock of God", Chapter 12, section 23, pg 133-134:

23. However, there are legal matters over which the congregation does not have authority and which may therefor be taken to a secular court for judgement without violating the principle of the spirit of 1 Corinthians 6:1-8. These include:
* Getting a divorce decree, child custody and support, alimony.
* Obtaining insurance compensation. If a person suffers loss or is injured in or by an automobile owned by a spiritual brother, it might be necessary legally to sue the brother in order to obtain compensation by the brother's insurer.
* Being listed among creditors in bankruptcy procedures.
* Probating wills.
* Certain countersuits. For example, if a worldly creditor sues a brother, for his own protection, to file a countersuit even though spiritual brothers may be included in the action.
* If a brother takes legal action against another baptized Witness, it would not be a violation of 1 Corinthians 6:1-8 for the one being sued to defend himself or to countersue. This is true whether the matter was first taken before the elders or not.

Section 23 deals with the only exceptions to a Witness taking another Witness to court. You will notice that there is no mention of criminal activity. Section 22 deals with detailing why you shouldn't take a brother to court. This one is clever in placement as sections 18-21 deal with handling reports of child abuse.

Section 18: "Immediately call the branch office." There is no mention of contacting the police in this section. The Elder is instructed to take direction from the Branch Office Legal Department according to "circumstances" (read HOW MUCH INFO THEY NEED TO COVER UP).

Section 19: "Never suggest to anyone that they should not report an allegation of child to the police or other authorities." There is no mention of suggesting that the victim should go to the police. It actually goes on to say that only if the elder is asked, to tell the child or his/her parent that deciding to report the matter to police is a personal decision. Mind you, these days, accepting blood transfusions is referred to as a personal decision.

Section 20: "When a know child molestor moves to another congregation, the Congregation Service Committee should send a letter of introduction with full and complete information about his background and current situation." These words are why the Watchtower Society is legally accountable for the actions of Gonzalo Campo.

Section 21: You have to see this with your own eyes to believe it. Page 132 says that if he denies the accusation, pretty much see if he's had any other sexual issues (outside of molesting kids) and decide if he's trustworthy around children. Page 133 requires them to ask questions about the accuser to determine if he/she has a history of dishonesty or mental issues, then asks if the accuser's family is known for lying or if they're all in good standing. Seriously not kidding about this. They are to decide if the molester is okay around other kids and if the molested is just a little attention seeking liar...specifically.

Then take into account that when judicial committee investigations rule in favor of the accused (as they are to do), there are numerous situations where the victim is told that the brother is found not guilty in the eyes of Jehovah and that further accusations of this man to other brothers and sisters in the congregation amounts to slander (an offense that merits a Judicial Committee hearing). So...yeah. No real encouragement or incentive among the Witnesses to report the issue to the police.

92

Ouija Board!!!

by XPeterX in

to those who don't believe in this shyt:you'd better not post here .

ok...so you ever used it?what experiences do you have?were you able to summon a demon?what did he tell you?what did you see?i'm really curious and i wanna try it!.

okage

In 2004, my friend Adrian, one of his friends, and myself were at his house. We made a ouija board from scratch and used it one dark and rainy night in White Settlement, TX. We were asking it yes and no questions for a while when I asked it to name my deceased grandmother, who died five years before. It started to head to the letter P (her name was Pamela) when we heard a scratching at the window. We were a little spooked and changed the question: "was that you?" It went to "no."

Moments later, while we tried to think of another question, his mother comes rushing into his room. The rain flooded the small creek behind their house and we needed to get out of there. His house was ruined that night. Not post-Katrina-ruined, but still fairly wrecked that he and his family needed to move.

Adrian and his friend to this day thought our ouija encounter caused the flood, but I tend to use Occam's Razor is simple situations like this. What's more logical? A triad of friends and acquaintances use a homemade divining board and contacted spirits that scratched at his window and flooded his house, OR a triad of friends and acquaintances were so busy making a divining board, none of them checked the weather or paid attention to the flooding rain outside?

6

For the Lurkers: You are not alone.

by okage in

in the seats of kingdom halls, you wait patiently for the meetings to end so you can escape the lie you've forced yourself to live.

at the conventions you smile at people you grew up with knowing that if they knew how you truly felt, they would leave you with nothing but memories.. you have questions.

you may even have answers.

okage

In the seats of Kingdom Halls, you wait patiently for the meetings to end so you can escape the lie you've forced yourself to live. At the conventions you smile at people you grew up with knowing that if they knew how you truly felt, they would leave you with nothing but memories.

You have questions. You may even have answers. But every day is a painful struggle to weigh the pro's and con's of finally speaking your mind and leaving the Society.

Your friends in the congregation feel like the only friends you can ever make. You've been told that the world outside the walls of the Organization are harsh and demonic. That only serving Jehovah would provide protection from the elements of a Satanic system.

Your family is loyal to Jehovah and have been made to believe that they can't serve Jehovah faithfully if they associate with someone who thinks the way you do. You fear they will pick Jehovah and the Organization over you. You don't know if you're strong enough to endure losing everything you know by taking a gamble.

You aren't the first to think like this. Here on JWN, thousands of people lived the life you live now. They had the same questions, the same doubts, the same fears.

There is no pressure to come forward. Please. See first hand that many here have moved on from the stigma the Society brands you with. Many endure the hardships you will face and are better people for it. Many are also going through exactly what you're going through, looking for an escape.

We understand you. We sympathize with you. You are not alone in this.

If you need help, there are many here willing to help you. There are some here dedicated to just that:
www.aawa.co (Advocates for the Awareness of Watchtower Abuse) run by John Cedars and Richard Kelly.
www.jwstruggle.com, an advice and help site run by JJ

If you need education, there are many here willing to educate you. There are some here dedicated to just that:
www.jwfacts.com, a comprehensive information site for all the things you wondered about but were discouraged from asking, run by Paul Grundy.
www.watchtowerdocuments.com, an information site run by one of the most prominent public faces of the Watchtower survivors, Barbara Anderson.

We are here for you and here when you need us.

~Ryan Arko

2

A rant regarding Gonzalo Campo and Youtube

by okage in

news team 10 in san diego reported on campo's actions with that revealing video deposition by campo himself.

by the policies created and ordered by the watchtower society, gonzalo campo was protected as a known serial pedophile and awarded a position of authority and access to children after the fact.. when candace conti's story became public, many active witnesses denied it was even a thing.

others who couldn't deny it sought to blame her and in a personal conversation between myself and a handful of jehovah's witnesses, i learned that there were those among the ranks who believe any nine year old girl is capable of seducing a grown man.

okage

That is very disheartening. In a sense, one could argue that many people don't really want the world safe or happy.

Yeah, it's race and discrimination now with Zimmerman and that other woman in Florida who tried Stand Your Ground. Then when racial tension eases, it'll be missing children or immigration. Before no time, it'll be the Winter Olympics. Then whatever other theme, then the Summer Olympics, then "Who's America's next president?"

And unfortunately, yes, I'm applying this to international media. Why Canada or Brazil care who the US President is beyond me, but we're not really hearing anything in the states about who is running Peru or Norway each term.

2

A rant regarding Gonzalo Campo and Youtube

by okage in

news team 10 in san diego reported on campo's actions with that revealing video deposition by campo himself.

by the policies created and ordered by the watchtower society, gonzalo campo was protected as a known serial pedophile and awarded a position of authority and access to children after the fact.. when candace conti's story became public, many active witnesses denied it was even a thing.

others who couldn't deny it sought to blame her and in a personal conversation between myself and a handful of jehovah's witnesses, i learned that there were those among the ranks who believe any nine year old girl is capable of seducing a grown man.

okage

News Team 10 in San Diego reported on Campo's actions with that revealing video deposition by Campo himself. By the policies created and ordered by the Watchtower Society, Gonzalo Campo was protected as a known serial pedophile and awarded a position of authority and access to children after the fact.

When Candace Conti's story became public, many active Witnesses denied it was even a thing. Others who couldn't deny it sought to blame her and in a personal conversation between myself and a handful of Jehovah's Witnesses, I learned that there were those among the ranks who believe any nine year old girl is capable of seducing a grown man. Regardless of view, most all Witnesses with a pro-Watchtower opinion on the matter argued that the Watchtower Society shouldn't be held accountable for a rank and file member's actions.

Well, now it is an Elder, and it is an Elder who received that appointment after committing multiple acts of molestation on young boys. Cedars on JWSurvey did an awesome job of detailing the events as they were made available to him and the general public. Gonzalo Campo's story is much bigger and affects many more lives and families than Candace Conti's story.

But only one secular source as I've seen has reported anything about it, and I am so concerned as to why?

Many here can and will argue that the Watchtower Society isn't a big enough threat to merit mainstream coverage. To the activists and the counselors and the anecdotals on this site, why doesn't this merit mainstream coverage? There are so many touched by the Watchtower Society and their cultist control mentality. Should a Catholic priest pass gas in front of a child, it makes headlines around the world. A muslim state arrests a woman for reporting rape and it makes international reading.

It's not Muslims or Catholics knocking on our doors when our children are home. It's not Baptists or Buddhists being invited into our houses to talk about God. It's Jehovah's Witnesses.

And Jehovah's Witnesses support the Watchtower, who has been found legally responsible for creating policies that protect child molestors in their congregation.

Last week, several big name Youtube Atheists took on Jehovah's Witnesses for their propaganda work, but with minimal knowledge of the Watchtower's workings or previous histories. The effort was looking at the Sparlock video and offering commentary based entirely on societal acceptance.
TJ Kirk aka The Amazing Atheist, Daniel Sulzbach aka MrRepzion, and Jaclyn Glenn aka JaclynGlenn were a few of the bigger names and their videos were similar but with varying levels of intensity. I feel they're effort was wasted because they could have opened alot of eyes.

MrRepzion's video as of the time of this writing has received 39,151 hits while he has a fan base of 115,131.

Amazing Atheist received 141,424 views with a fan base of 441,446 subscribers.

JaclynGlenn received 21,373 views on her Sparlock video with a fan base of 40,591.

This was five days ago. To put in in perspective (and no offense to Cedars' work), John Cedars most popular video received 18,991 views with a subscriber fan base of 531, and it has that many views after 6 months. And at no point am I dumping on Cedars or even that number of views because almost 19,000 people saw truth when they watched it. You could pack the Staples Center in Los Angeles with all the people who saw the video.

My point here is that Cedars actively tries to expose the Watchtower and enlighten the populace and his top video received less views in six months than JaclynGlenn's throwaway Sparlock video in five days. When the mainstream (albeit Youtube's mainstream) touch on just a minor Watchtower screwup, they reach 200,000+ people. There is so much power in the mainstream and it gets wasted on crappy cartoon propaganda videos while things like Malawi rape and torture, Candace Conti and Gonzalo Campo, tax fraud and hedgefunds, and murder by blood doctrine go ignored.

Why?

4

The Amazing Atheist Finally Takes a Crack @ Jehovah's Witnesses

by okage in

http://youtu.be/hbfthrsq2i0.

here's hoping it's an active link because lately, it doesn't make anything i post active..

okage

If someone would be so kind as to give me an embedding tutorial, it'd be much appreciated.

4

The Amazing Atheist Finally Takes a Crack @ Jehovah's Witnesses

by okage in

http://youtu.be/hbfthrsq2i0.

here's hoping it's an active link because lately, it doesn't make anything i post active..

okage

http://youtu.be/HBfthrsq2i0

Here's hoping it's an active link because lately, it doesn't make anything I post active.

3

Facebook page about the WT & the UN

by Honesty in

https://www.facebook.com/pages/jehovahs-witnesses-the-united-nations/168338773294772?fref=ts.

okage

Awesome page @Honesty.

Thank you @Watchtower-Free for the effort in buzzwords and procedures in getting the message a larger audience.

39

Anyone who's seen 'Man of Steel', can we talk about SPOILER-related stuff?

by sd-7 in

if the title of the thread wasn't enough, spoiler alert.. spoiler alert.. .

okay...so...that said, i haven't seen the movie, which would be a paradox except that i read the novelization.

so...how'd you feel about the way it ended?

okage

My issue with Superman killing is that Batman in the comics is usually criticized by Superman for the lengths Bruce goes in fights with supervillains. In Batman/Superman: Supergirl, Batman was willing to destroy all of Apokolips, killing everyone on it, just to help save Supergirl, who was kidnapped by Darkseid and Granny Goodness.

Now that Superman has killed someone and Batman has killed zero people, the dynamic will be so much different between the two of them.

And really!? A Krypton scouting ship and they couldn't use a plot device where Clark learns about the Phantom Zone to later trap Zod in the PZ? It would have been a dramatic scene where it sucks everyone from Krypton in and Superman fights with all he has to avoid being trapped. Just a massive CGI black hole with debris and rendered Kryptonian soldiers being thrown into it.

And they pick an anti-climactic "snap."

39

Anyone who's seen 'Man of Steel', can we talk about SPOILER-related stuff?

by sd-7 in

if the title of the thread wasn't enough, spoiler alert.. spoiler alert.. .

okay...so...that said, i haven't seen the movie, which would be a paradox except that i read the novelization.

so...how'd you feel about the way it ended?

okage

Superman/Doomsday:

Doomsday was a creation from a scientist who was of an ancient race found on krypton. He started out as a baby and was hurled into the hazardous wastelands of ancient krypton and would be killed by the monsters out there. The scientist retrieved the body and cloned the baby and repeated the process hundreds of times in an effort to speed up adaptation. Eventually, the creature that would be named Doomsday (by Booster Gold, I believe), adapted to anything that could hurt him to the point that he could adapt while living.

Those bone plates over his knees and shoulders were evolved while in battle. He also has bone shards guarding his eyes and sternum to prevent damage to his eyes and heart.

In the Death of Superman, they hit each other so hard that Superman was put into a death sleep while Doomsday was technically dead. With this attack, Doomsday evolved again and became biologically immortal. Cyborg Superman in the Reign of the Supermen story sensed this and launched Doomsday into outer space so that when Doomsday woke up, he would be somebody else's problem.

He was then found and brought to Apokolips so Darkseid could use him as a weapon. Unfortunately, nobody puts Baby in the corner, so Doomsday started killing people left and right on Apokolips while Cyborg (in a black and red motif now) tried to take over Apokolips. So Darkseid needed Superman's help. They couldn't kill Doomsday because of his new evolved state, so they had Waverider (still the 90's by this point) take Doomsday to the very last moment in time and they left him there.

This was the very last time Doomsday was cool and not just some nostalgia bump DC uses to get the fans from the 90's reading again.