Posts by WinstonSmith

19

Elder's School 2012any news?

by Londo111 in

jw
friends

i have heard rumblings that this has started up in some places.

i know there are some awakened elders on here who often provide good intel.

in light of all the juicy things that have happened in the last year, especially the conti case, i think many of us here are pining to hear any bit of news, so it would be much appreciated!.

The week long schools are kicking off in our area at the moment. The first notification of this was quite a while ago, back when I was serving as an elder (almost a year ago). I was was glad to miss out on this! A week is a massive commitment, and annual leave is precious. I can't help but feel sorry for the many self employed bros that will have to forgo a week of income with no holiday pay in order to attend.

Of course they will be expected to be grateful for the wonderful spiritual banquet....

31

Scholastic Dishonesty - June 2012 Awake - Jewish Exile Timeline

by Ultimate Reality in

the june 2012 awake has another article on the exile of the jews by the babylonians.

once again the wt quotes dishonestly.. .

from page 14:.

WinstonSmith

What strikes me about this is that in all the public talks we hear and WTS books we read, the accuracy, the exactness and the detail of prophecy are emphasised. Yet here they are happy with 'corresponds closely'.

31

Pascal's Wager, Best Answer I Have Heard

by Diest in

jw
friends

many of us have heard of pascal's wager.

basically that you can bet on god and receive an infinite reward, or you can bet against him and live an easier life for 80 years.

this guy proves that the wager is really misstated.. .

WinstonSmith

I quite agree KS. It would indeed be a wonderful thing if the truth about any subject could be used to end an argument. Our experiences in life warp our view of truth though. A fact doesn't change, but our view or understanding of it does. When they worked out that the earth was not the center of the universe, it didn't suddenly not become the center if the universe, our greater understanding of it meant we now saw it in the right place.

I have seen people be proved completely wrong but still defend their defenseless position because they didn't want to give in and be seen to 'lose' to someone they perceived as cocky.

I know some people that will look at this video and may lean toward being swayed but as soon as they hear those final words, the wall will go up. For them those final words will negate everything that came before them, no matter how sound it was.

It is an excellent video, I just think from a tactical point of view, the warm appeal to reason will jar to a halt for some people, like a needle being bumped off a record player, on hearing his closing statement.

31

Pascal's Wager, Best Answer I Have Heard

by Diest in

jw
friends

many of us have heard of pascal's wager.

basically that you can bet on god and receive an infinite reward, or you can bet against him and live an easier life for 80 years.

this guy proves that the wager is really misstated.. .

WinstonSmith

My point is that people are more likely to listen and be moved by someone that they think is trying to help them rather than prove them wrong. This has nothing to do with arrogance. It has everything to do with being human. No matter how wrong we might be about something, I'm sure all of us would prefer to be told in a nice way that we are wrong, and why. No-one likes to be spoken to like they are stupid. No-one likes to be talked down to. This applies to athiests, Christians, the non-religious - everyone.

31

Pascal's Wager, Best Answer I Have Heard

by Diest in

jw
friends

many of us have heard of pascal's wager.

basically that you can bet on god and receive an infinite reward, or you can bet against him and live an easier life for 80 years.

this guy proves that the wager is really misstated.. .

WinstonSmith

I enjoyed watching this and the reasoning behind it is very sound. It is a great explanation and it will no doubt help some people 'get' what it means.

I did however think that after holding our attention for almost 8 minutes with good arguments and appeal to reason he blew a lot of the goodwill he built up by saying, as his last words 'lucky I'm not wrong'. He was putting himself across well right up to the last seconds. One of the biggest turn offs for people learning more about athiesm is the smarmy "I'm so right and you're an idiot for believing in God" attitude that some have.

This would appeal to a lot more people who are genuinely seeking if it was about 5 seconds shorter.

34

Is the 10 Hour Per Month Requirement Still In Force?

by Conan The Barbarian in

are there any active elders/ms or higher out there who can advise if one of the requirements for appointment is that the person's fs time is equal to or greater than either the congregation's average or the national average?

this used to be the case, but may have been relaxed.

also is the branch still approving appointments?

WinstonSmith

Exact conversation I had with an elder after moving into a new congregation and not being used and appointed soon after arriving:

Me: Is there a reason why I haven't been re-appointed?

Elder: Well your hours have been quite low since moving in. (I was getting 8 hours a month regularly)

Me: So what should my hours be? I don't remember anything ever being specified in the elders book or the magazines.

Elder: We would like to see your hours around the national average.

Me: What is the national average? (Knowing full well that it was not printed in the KM any more)

Elder: Ummm, ahhhh (pauses) let's make it ten.

In the ensuing months I increased my time to 10 hours a month until the CO arrived and I was reappointed. I then dropped back to 8.

Elders appointed by Holy Spirit? NOPE.

13

When a Jehovah's witness cannot explain what they believe with New Light

by wasblind in

jw
friends

their firm understandin' become shakey ground if confronted wit their own words.

last week a elder from the hall i attended, kindly approached me, ask why i ( an unbaptised publisher ) stopped.

attending.

WinstonSmith

"Its hard to stand firm on shifting sand" Brilliant. I am SO stealing that as my own!

19

The WT doesn't believe in infant baptism, but does an 11 year old really understand what they're getting into isn't just a pool with a lot of people looking on?

by oppostate in

a scene from today's "safeguard your heart" district convention of jehovah's witnesses.

(with thanks to ignacio luis gutierrez).

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/182579_326510270757133_1763913794_n.jpg.

WinstonSmith

Mrs Smith got baptised at 10. Her reason? Because she loved God? Because she fervently desired a lifelong commitment to helping people undertand the bible? Because she wanted God's name sanctified?

No.

She did it because she thought it would make her Mum happy.

A child of this age cannot possibly understand that, once they make this decision, if they change their mind in five years they will have to farewell everyone they love in order to gain their freedom.

This picture gives me chills.

Why can't they just let kids be kids?

Gotta get those numbers up somehow I guess. They certainly aren't pouring in from the field.

171

Watchtower's Billion Dollars of Property Cannot Be Sold until Outcome of Conti Appeal

by Dogpatch in

30 minutes ago i just got off the phone with some important players in this case, and some things were relayed to me concerning a lot of details of the outcome of the last two days of court.

i am passing this on.

cynthia hampton, one of the main players in the candace conti case (and a close friend of 28 years), just informed me of a further, far more powerful move by the state of california against the watch tower bible and tract society of new york, inc.. by order of the superior court of the state of california - county of alameda (see documents below), until the watch tower's appeal, which won't begin until august 13th and will take up to two years to settle due to due process of law, has forbidden the watch tower to sell any more of its $1 billion in assets in the borough of brooklyn until the appeals case is finished, to assure they won't shelter their monies in the light of this most huge and devastating sexual abuse scandal ever to hit the watch tower society, and perhaps any other single-victim lawsuit.

WinstonSmith

As Irondork mentioned on page 2 of this thread, a while ago the WTS said they wern't sure of what Jehovah's will was on the planned upcoming building projects. Hey guys, I think you have your answer!

Of course, as Agonus noted above, this will no doubt be spun as being a sign of the end, Satan causing trouble and / or the opening stages of the Great Tribulation.

My experience has always been with JWs that when something good happens, it is Jehovah's blessing, a sign that he approves of a course of action. When something bad happens, rather than being an indication of no blessing from Jehovah, or disapproval of the course of action, Satan gets blamed for stirring things up.

Confirmation bias at its finest.

106

Plaintiff awarded in punitive damages -21M & 1 dollar. Total award, 28M & 1 dollar. Here's more info

by AndersonsInfo in

the plaintiff, candace conti's goal from the very beginning was to bring enough attention to this problem to incentivize watchtower to change its policy of secrecy.

the award can be explained as it was decided: separate compensatory and punitive damages.

the punitive award is established in law to punish wrongdoing - here, the conscious disregard for others - and deter that conduct in the future.

WinstonSmith

To all involved, our sincerest thanks for your bravery, hard work, and dedication. This will be a big hit for the Society from a financial, public relations and trust point of view. This may well be the thing that motivates many more to front up and let the Society know that they cannot get away with their lies, cannot cover up these horrid crimes, and bear heavy responsibility for their actions. It may cause many to finally question the legitimacy of these so-called mouthpieces of God.

Love, peace and hugs to all.

Mr and Mrs Smith