Posts by WinstonSmith

26

2012 ICSA Conference The Ethics of Evangelism

by Lady Lee in

well the title of this caught me attention especially since so many ex-jehovah's witnesses think any kind of evangelism or preaching is bad.

so the idea that some evangelism might actually be good intrigued me.

i have refrained from adding comments how jws measure up to each of these.

WinstonSmith

@Designs: You are bang on there bro! Especially when the X keeps changing....

375

The Governing Body intends to announce significant changes in academic literature (DOCTRINES) - Brazil

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

dear randall.

good morning!.

here is the daniel of brazil (former bethel).. this week at the forum of former jehovah's witnesses had an interesting news!

WinstonSmith

Black Sheep: Great tactic. Get them pumped up on telling you how wrong you are and then reveal to them it has all changed. Again.

26

2012 ICSA Conference The Ethics of Evangelism

by Lady Lee in

well the title of this caught me attention especially since so many ex-jehovah's witnesses think any kind of evangelism or preaching is bad.

so the idea that some evangelism might actually be good intrigued me.

i have refrained from adding comments how jws measure up to each of these.

WinstonSmith

Hi Lady Lee,

Thanks for sharing and bumping the thread. Our different timezones meant I missed it when it first came up. Glad to catch it now!

Reading through that list reminded me of the first time I read the BITE criteria. There is so much that is instantly identifiable with the way things are done to get people studying and then held in the confines of the Society.

This will be a useful tool in the arsenal. Things like this are good to show someone to get them thinking.....

375

The Governing Body intends to announce significant changes in academic literature (DOCTRINES) - Brazil

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

dear randall.

good morning!.

here is the daniel of brazil (former bethel).. this week at the forum of former jehovah's witnesses had an interesting news!

WinstonSmith

I picked up on the same thing as SIAM in the WT study a couple of weeks ago when they flagged possible changes in the ministry. The way it was dropped into the paragraph / article seemed to me like it was there just so they could refer back to it in the future and say something like 'as mentioned in the X article, sometimes there is a need for change. That is why we will now <insert change>'

Just speculation though. If it is real and is major enough to warrant a one day 'lets all get our stories straight' indoctrination day, it may also be an opportunity for some faders to hasten their exit with a 'wow this is major and has rattled me I need some time out' tack.

We'll just have to wait and see what's up!

19

Elder's School 2012any news?

by Londo111 in

jw
friends

i have heard rumblings that this has started up in some places.

i know there are some awakened elders on here who often provide good intel.

in light of all the juicy things that have happened in the last year, especially the conti case, i think many of us here are pining to hear any bit of news, so it would be much appreciated!.

WinstonSmith

The week long schools are kicking off in our area at the moment. The first notification of this was quite a while ago, back when I was serving as an elder (almost a year ago). I was was glad to miss out on this! A week is a massive commitment, and annual leave is precious. I can't help but feel sorry for the many self employed bros that will have to forgo a week of income with no holiday pay in order to attend.

Of course they will be expected to be grateful for the wonderful spiritual banquet....

31

Scholastic Dishonesty - June 2012 Awake - Jewish Exile Timeline

by Ultimate Reality in

the june 2012 awake has another article on the exile of the jews by the babylonians.

once again the wt quotes dishonestly.. .

from page 14:.

WinstonSmith

What strikes me about this is that in all the public talks we hear and WTS books we read, the accuracy, the exactness and the detail of prophecy are emphasised. Yet here they are happy with 'corresponds closely'.

31

Pascal's Wager, Best Answer I Have Heard

by Diest in

jw
friends

many of us have heard of pascal's wager.

basically that you can bet on god and receive an infinite reward, or you can bet against him and live an easier life for 80 years.

this guy proves that the wager is really misstated.. .

WinstonSmith

I quite agree KS. It would indeed be a wonderful thing if the truth about any subject could be used to end an argument. Our experiences in life warp our view of truth though. A fact doesn't change, but our view or understanding of it does. When they worked out that the earth was not the center of the universe, it didn't suddenly not become the center if the universe, our greater understanding of it meant we now saw it in the right place.

I have seen people be proved completely wrong but still defend their defenseless position because they didn't want to give in and be seen to 'lose' to someone they perceived as cocky.

I know some people that will look at this video and may lean toward being swayed but as soon as they hear those final words, the wall will go up. For them those final words will negate everything that came before them, no matter how sound it was.

It is an excellent video, I just think from a tactical point of view, the warm appeal to reason will jar to a halt for some people, like a needle being bumped off a record player, on hearing his closing statement.

31

Pascal's Wager, Best Answer I Have Heard

by Diest in

jw
friends

many of us have heard of pascal's wager.

basically that you can bet on god and receive an infinite reward, or you can bet against him and live an easier life for 80 years.

this guy proves that the wager is really misstated.. .

WinstonSmith

My point is that people are more likely to listen and be moved by someone that they think is trying to help them rather than prove them wrong. This has nothing to do with arrogance. It has everything to do with being human. No matter how wrong we might be about something, I'm sure all of us would prefer to be told in a nice way that we are wrong, and why. No-one likes to be spoken to like they are stupid. No-one likes to be talked down to. This applies to athiests, Christians, the non-religious - everyone.

31

Pascal's Wager, Best Answer I Have Heard

by Diest in

jw
friends

many of us have heard of pascal's wager.

basically that you can bet on god and receive an infinite reward, or you can bet against him and live an easier life for 80 years.

this guy proves that the wager is really misstated.. .

WinstonSmith

I enjoyed watching this and the reasoning behind it is very sound. It is a great explanation and it will no doubt help some people 'get' what it means.

I did however think that after holding our attention for almost 8 minutes with good arguments and appeal to reason he blew a lot of the goodwill he built up by saying, as his last words 'lucky I'm not wrong'. He was putting himself across well right up to the last seconds. One of the biggest turn offs for people learning more about athiesm is the smarmy "I'm so right and you're an idiot for believing in God" attitude that some have.

This would appeal to a lot more people who are genuinely seeking if it was about 5 seconds shorter.

34

Is the 10 Hour Per Month Requirement Still In Force?

by Conan The Barbarian in

are there any active elders/ms or higher out there who can advise if one of the requirements for appointment is that the person's fs time is equal to or greater than either the congregation's average or the national average?

this used to be the case, but may have been relaxed.

also is the branch still approving appointments?

WinstonSmith

Exact conversation I had with an elder after moving into a new congregation and not being used and appointed soon after arriving:

Me: Is there a reason why I haven't been re-appointed?

Elder: Well your hours have been quite low since moving in. (I was getting 8 hours a month regularly)

Me: So what should my hours be? I don't remember anything ever being specified in the elders book or the magazines.

Elder: We would like to see your hours around the national average.

Me: What is the national average? (Knowing full well that it was not printed in the KM any more)

Elder: Ummm, ahhhh (pauses) let's make it ten.

In the ensuing months I increased my time to 10 hours a month until the CO arrived and I was reappointed. I then dropped back to 8.

Elders appointed by Holy Spirit? NOPE.