during the last three to four months, i have spent a great deal of time sinking my teeth into various critical biblical commentaries and lexicons.
naturally, after beginning to research "the truth about the truth" one of the most commonplace yet controversial arguments revolve around the "gentile times" doctrine (i.e.
the application of the seven times of daniel 4 from 607 b.c.e.
"If I can't win I won't play"
I expect that with all this knowledge, discovered from thorough research, that flies in the face of the majority of scholarly research, we can soon expect a book to be released exposing all of those other scholars as being wrong.
Would it survive the peer review process?
Perhaps a more important question is: Under which pseudonym will it be published?
we had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.
fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.
i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.
Sorry, working from my Tablet and something went awry!
She said "Yes these things have happened to me and others, but you can't get around the fact that the scriptures say that we have to go to the elders. Its obvious that he wants this arrangement." To which we replied "When you read those scriptures and it uses the word 'elder' does it have a capital e at the start or a small e?" She says "It has a small e" and I said "So what does that tell you?" She replies "That we should talk to older and wiser ones in the congregation." Then I said "Thats why another scripture says that the prayer of the faithful one is powerful. You see, scripture interprets scripture."
She sat there with this "OMG I never thought of it that way" look on her face, and then began to slowly nod as it dawned on her.
Now, I don't know how much logic there is to what I said, but I think we are slowly driving the point through the cult fogged mind. We mentioned the 'scripture interprets scripture' thing a few more times and will keep emphasising this. We suggested that for a while she just read and enjoy the bible alone. To this she replied "Yeah things change so suddenly in the truth that what you read one week might be apostate the next!"
So you can see that she sees it, but doesn't yet SEE it. If you know what I mean.
Patience....
we had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.
fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.
i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.
Hey Penny2!
Aussie has been having some great weather these last few days! We've spent the holidays tripping around all over the place. As I type this, I'm sitting on the back deck sipping a nice glass of white wine watching the sun go down.
We had a great afternoon with Sister T. Boy she is so close to 'getting' it about the truth about the truth. She completely agrees that there is something wrong with the organisation. She clearly sees from her experience and the experience of others that there is a serious lack of love and, in her own words "legalism is taking precedent." We told her about the experience that was shared in a thread here on JWN about about a video at the elders school where two elders convinced the older elder, on the judicial committee that a young dude should be disfellowshipped and all they used to convince hime was the Shepherd book, and the bible was not used at all. We of course said our elder friend from another congregation related it, not that we read it on here! She was flabbergasted and said "If this is the training they're getting, then we're all stuffed."
She is still hanging onto the "despite all this, its still the best place to be" mentality, but I guess the cult runs deep and blinds easily. Like an abused wife wanting to see the good in her husband. We did manage on a few occasions stop her in her verbal tracks, and you could see the gears grinding. For example she said "Yes these things have happened to me and others, but you can't get around the fact that the scriptures say
good day everyone,.
i'm a born in jehovah's hostage, and am still a hostage until i can wake my family up (wishful thinking i know).
i'll formally introduce myself later.. for now i have some burning concerns about the service meeting part for the week of december 24, 2012.
Gosh darn it don't you love a good thread! You know, threads that have open and honest posts in them, posts that help people Face the Facts and assist their Recovery from the organisation. Threads such as we have here have so much more value than certain others and help people develop their Ethos.
I think some good points have been raised here, namely that this move could be indicative of a further dumbing down of the ministry, and a return to the old presentation card / phonograph days. Even if theings don't go back to the old way, the ministry is definitely dumber than it used to be. Remember the Topics for Discussion that used to be in the KM? Remember when presentations had to be a certain length? Nowadays the KM presentations are cookie cutter in that they are simple Question, Scripture, Article. People I know generally skip the scripture part and just ask a question (usually the same question that's on the cover) and then just flick through the mag saying "this magazine answers that question and also has some other interesting articles."
We have heard whispers of a move away from the mags as a primary weapon and going to just tracts. The idea being that interest can be gauged with a tract and then mags can be introduced later as people show they are genuinely interested. Obviously it is easier and cheaper to spit out a zillion tracts that are all the same content than to print a zillion magazines that change content a couple of times a month.
Follow the money.
How cheap would it be for the WTS to get evryone to have have a video loaded on their electronic device and just play it to the householder? It wouldn't cost them that much apart from production costs ( which would pale in comparison to printing costs). The cost would be lumped on to the publisher to buy a compatible device and the appropriate data plan.
Pushing costs onto the already struggling plebs? Sounds like a dream plan for the tightwads at Head Office.
my husband's cult personality has relaxed since he's been seeing me go out in service and underline my watchtower, so yesterday it felt right to nudge him just a little more.
"you know, i normally love the watchtower articles but the one i'm studying for tomorrow is just crazy.
i'm beginning to think that there's a narcissist somewhere in the writing department.
Hey there EmperorsLaundrist, what a great post, full of good news!
This method of biding your time, slipping in some thought provoking questions, then leaving it alone for a while is exactly how I got Mrs Smith to wake up. Keep up the great work because you never know what affect it is having. Unbeknownst to me in the period where I was biding my time, Mrs Smith was researching what I had said to, out of love and concern, pull me back on the JW course. When she found out that what I was saying (transplants, 144,000 etc) was correct, the cracks began to appear. Now we are working side by side to slink our way out and hopefully help some friends and family on the way.
Hang in there, stick to it, and let patience be your master. This is a battle that will be won in inches. We're all cheering for you :-)
we had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.
fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.
i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.
Wow, have really been enjoying not going to meetings the last week or so. We told everyone we were going on holidays, so they won't be expecting to see us. It has been nice having some time just for the two of us. The weather has been good too, and many a beer has been consumed.
We are about to head out soon to spend the afternoon with our friend Sister T. This is the one that recently said to us that she is convinced that the WTS has been infiltrated by Satan and is corrupting it and that soon Jehovah will step in and clean it out. She is still sticking to the 'there has to be an organisation' thing so she is not completely 'there' yet. Needless to say we will be quietly planting seeds and drawing her out all afternoon.
Watch this space...
good day everyone,.
i'm a born in jehovah's hostage, and am still a hostage until i can wake my family up (wishful thinking i know).
i'll formally introduce myself later.. for now i have some burning concerns about the service meeting part for the week of december 24, 2012.
Welcome JW07, you have started your life at JWN with a great thread topic. I look forward to getting to know you!
With the internet and the WTS, that story of the scorpion that rides on the back of the dog to cross the river comes to mind. The scorpion ends up stinging the dog and says "I can't help it, that's what I do." The internet will dent the WTS in a big way, either by stopping people from getting involved (because they do some research) or by assisting those inside who have doubts and decide to 'just have a look'.
I think pushing the website in the ministry will backfire somewhat. If they think that 'worldly' people who have no fear of the authority of the GB won't check out the other sites that come up in a Google search, then this proves how completely out of touch with the real world they are. When I am looking for somewhere to take Mrs Smith out for dinner, I'll check out the restaurants reputation online. Google the name, and after three or so bad reviews, I'm looking for someplace else. If the GB think they can stop the general public from doing the same thing, they are idiots.
They are one lone website amongst millions and millions of others. Good luck with that strategy guys.
we had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.
fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.
i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.
So tempted to post a reference to that WT article that says the origin of the practice doesn't matter, what matters is how people view the practice today.
RESIST WINSTON! RESIST!
we had to go off grid for a time, time and half a time as we thought we had been outed.
fortunately it was a false alarm, but it was a stressful time.
i asked for my original diary thread to be deleted in case there could be anything on there to identlfy mrs smith and i. i am always very careful when posting, and am sure there was nothing on there, but felt it best to have it removed in order to be as cautious as a dove.
Ugh, I know they think they are doing God's work and all, but sheesh, they can't give it a rest for one day can they? A young bro in our congregation, baptised for just over a year just posted on Facebook a copy and paste from an encyclopedia about the pagan roots of Christmas. Followed with a "why would you want anything to do with that?"
The first comment is from someone who I'm guessing is a non-witness friend replied with a "Yeah but its just a fun day to get together with family" to which bro says "Yes, a day based on paganism."
Behold, the insensitive reasoning of JWs. Can't leave things alone for one day. Gotta stir the pot!
just found this on a post from a fb jw friend of mine:.
experiences following the connecticut shooting:.
from a local witness:.
Sherilynn: Doing it out of love, plus marking down time and placements.
Sad, but true.
If someone turned up on my doorstep after a disaster, or an event like Sandy Hook and offered me a leaflet pushing a religous point of view, I would be offended at them capitalising on the situation to peddle their crap.
Totally different story if they turned up empty handed and just said "Hey, we are just checking in to make sure you're handling things. Need someone to talk to? Vent? Get something off your chest? We're here mate."
JWs are so out of touch with reality that they A: can't go out and be nice to people unless given instructions to, and B: can't talk to people unless they have a piece of WT literature in between them as a barrier.
