CLARITY OF VISION
raven101
JoinedPosts by raven101
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15
"All of them witches"...
by Preston in"all of them witches" was the name of the book that mia farrow read in in the film "rosemary's baby" which eventually lead her to believe that ruth grodon, ralph bellamy, and several other actors from the 40's and 50's rooming in her apartment were satan-worshippin' wiitches.
in this day in age i think people who are witches in real life have to live with various stereotypes permeated from movies, t.v.
shows, and whatnot.
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Jws @ my door.unbelievable.....
by target intwo jws, man and wife, were just at my door.
she started presenting the watchtower and i just saw red!
i can't believe the anger that welled up in me.
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raven101
I think both Target and LadyLees stories are a beautiful example of the harmony of the universe (multi-faceted beast that WE are) at work.
LadyLee, your approach was the approach that is most generally productive . . . to SOLICIT THOUGHT . . . and it was obviously a very harmonious and mutually productive exchange. A reason for celebration.
Some people are so deeply entrenched in their belief system, however, that they are largely incapable of being moved subtly to independent thought . . . I believe at least one of the individuals at your door Target, fell into that category. We should never deny the truth that inspires pure emotion, it is drawn from same well as intuition.
You said:"I never expected to feel that kind of anger. It took me totally by surprise."
"I was so angry I could hardly talk. I did not know the depth of my feelings until then."
I have full faith in the harmony behind all of creation, and as such I have no doubt there were very real benefits to all three of you from this encounter.
It sounds to me like the woman knew nothing about the situation, she was blindsided, you can be sure this will inspire thought.
It sounds like the man probably knew what you were talking about . . .
"He brought up the crap about the Bible saying two witnesses but that the elders encourage the victims to go to the police"he had certainly contemplated the implications of the two witness thing.
Whether these people choose to use the thought inspired by this encounter to call them to closer inspection of the organizations and their own beliefs, or to further entrench themselves into their respective stances is their choice.
You can be sure however that the truth behind the display of your instinctive emotion gave them a bump in the direction that is right for them at this time.
Thanks to both of you for sharing your stories today,
Raven101
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Congregation Letter 5-24-02
by silentlambs inchristian congregation.
of jehovah's witnesses.
2528 route 22 patterson ny 12563-2237 phone (845) 306 1100 .
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raven101
Excellent point there about DNA, Devon! My thoughts exactly, I mean, isn't that what its about . . . EVIDENCE? Isn't that how a wrong is PROVEN?
Back in biblical days they had only TESTIMONY, and the 2 witness thing (besides the obvious patriarchal overtones I won't go into) was to protect someone against FALSE testimony.
Only idiocy or something worse would prevent someone from using a fail-safe form of evidence.
On the WT websight I believe it says witnesses to two separate crimes MAY be allowed to fill the two witness criteria, wording is everything (ask any lawyer). MAY is even weaker than CAN, both leave the possibility of action or inaction, the wording would be WILL if they had any intention of making a real change.
I would be the first to be happy if I thought the new statement meant any real change in policy, whatever I might think of their motivation, I would be glad that the rights and safety of children was being considered, at least to something approaching a decent standard.
RAVEN101
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WAR & RUMORS OF (NUCLEAR) WAR
by You Know ina question for all to consider is: if pakistan and india go nuclear, as seems to becoming more likely by the day, how long will civilization be able to stay intact without completely unraveling, and during that interval will ridiculers be able to maintain the delusion that nothing out of the ordinary is happening in the world?
/ you know.
> http://www.msnbc.com/news/753586.asp?pne=msn&cp1=1
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Jiddu Krishnamurti on Truth and Freedom
by raven101 ini'm posting this very late in the day but i hope someone gets the opportunity to read and benefit from this, krishnamurti was a very interesting man to say the least.
krishnamurti home - krishnamurti links - katinka's weblife - lost?
sitemap .
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raven101
I'm posting this very late in the day but I hope someone gets the opportunity to read and benefit from this, krishnamurti was a very interesting man to say the least.
Krishnamurti home - Krishnamurti links - Katinka's weblife - Lost? Sitemap
Eclectic Theosophical History--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lecture given by J. Krishnamurti, in 1929,
when he dissolved the Order of the Star of the East.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are going to discuss this morning the dissolution of the Order of the Star. Many will be delighted, and others will be rather sad. It is a question neither for rejoicing nor for sadness, because it is inevitable, as I am going to explain....
I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organised; nor should any organisation be formed to lead or coerce people along any particular path. If you first understand that, then you will see how impossible it is to organise a belief. A belief is purely an individual matter, and you cannot and must not organise it. If you do, it becomes dead, crystallised; it becomes a creed, a sect, a religion, to be imposed on others.
This is what everyone throughout the world is attempting to do. Truth is narrowed down and made a plaything for those who are weak, for those who are only momentarily discontented. Truth cannot be brought down, rather the individual must make the effort to ascend to it. You cannot bring the mountain-top to the valley....
So that is the first reason, from my point of view, why the Order of the Star should be dissolved. In spite of this, you will probably form other Orders, you will continue to belong to other organisations searching for Truth. I do not want to belong to any organisation of a spiritual kind; please understand this....
If an organisation be created for this purpose, it becomes a crutch, a weakness, a bondage, and must cripple the individual, and prevent him from growing, from establishing his uniqueness, which lies in the discovery for himself of that absolute, unconditioned Truth. So that is another reason why I have decided, as I happen to be the Head of the Order, to dissolve it.
This is no magnificent deed, because I do not want followers, and I mean this. The moment you follow someone you cease to follow Truth. I am not concerned whether you pay attention to what I say or not. I want to do a certain thing in the world and I am going to do it with unwavering concentration. I am concerning myself with only one essential thing: to set man free. I desire to free him from all cages, from all fears, and not to found religions, new sects, nor to establish new theories and new philosophies. Then you will naturally ask me why I go the world over, continually speaking. I will tell you for what reason I do this; not because I desire a following, not because I desire a special group of special disciples. (How men love to be different from their fellow-men, however ridiculous, absurd and trivial their distinctions, may be! I do not want to encourage that absurdity.) I have no disciples, no apostles, either on earth or in the realm of spirituality.
Nor is it the lure of money, nor the desire to live a comfortable life, which attracts me. If I wanted to lead a comfortable life I would not come to a Camp or live in a damp country! I am speaking frankly because I want this settled once and for all. I do not want these childish discussion year after year.
A newspaper reporter, who interviewed me, considered it a magnificent act to dissolve an organisation in which there were thousands and thousands of members. To him it was a great act because he said: "What will you do afterwards, how will you live? You will have no following, people will no longer listen to you." If there are only five people who will listen, who will live, who have their faces turned towards eternity, it will be sufficient. Of what use is it to have thousands who do not understand, who are fully embalmed in prejudice, who do not want the new, but would rather translate the new to suit their own sterile, stagnant selves?....
Because I am free, unconditioned, whole, not the part, not the relative, but the whole Truth that is eternal, I desire those, who seek to understand me, to be free, not to follow me, not to make out of me a cage which will become a religion, a sect. Rather should they be free from all fears - from the fear of religion, from the fear of salvation, from the fear of spirituality, from the fear of love, from the fear of death, from the fear of life itself. As an artist paints a picture because he takes delight in that painting, because it is his self-expression, his glory, his well-being, so I do this and not because I want any thing from anyone. You are accustomed to authority, or to the atmosphere of authority which you think will lead you to spirituality. You think and hope that another can, by his extraordinary powers - a miracle - transport you to this realm of eternal freedom which is Happiness. Your whole outlook on life is based on that authority.
You have listened to me for three years now, without any change taking place except in the few. Now analyse what I am saying, be critical, so that you may understand thoroughly, fundamentally....
For eighteen years you have been preparing for this event, for the Coming of the World Teacher. For eighteen years you have organised, you have looked for someone who would give a new delight to your hearts and minds, who would transform your whole life, who would give you a new understanding; for someone who would raise you to a new plane of life, who would give you new encouragement, who would set you free - and now look what is happening! Consider, reason with yourselves, and discover in what way that belief has made you different - not with the superficial difference of the wearing of a badge, which is trivial, absurd. In what manner has such a belief swept away all unessential things of life? That is the only way to judge: in what way are you freer, greater, more dangerous to every society which is based on the false and the unessential? In what way have the members of this organisation of the Star become different?....
You are all depending for your spirituality on someone else, for your happiness on someone else, for your enlightenment on someone else.... when I say look within yourselves for the enlightenment, for the glory, for the purification, and for the incorruptibility of the self, not one of you is willing to do it. There may be a few, but very, very few. So why have an organisation?....
No man from outside can make you free; nor can organised worship, nor the immolation of yourselves for a cause, make you free; nor can forming yourselves into an organisation, nor throwing yourselves into work, make you free. You use a typewriter to write letters, but you do not put it on an alter and worship it. But that is what you are doing when organisations become your chief concern. "How many members are there in it?" That is the first question I am asked by all newspaper reporters. "How many followers have you? By their number we shall judge whether what you say is true or false." I do not know how many there are. I am not concerned with that. If there were even one man who had been set free, that were enough....
Again, you have the idea that only certain people hold the key to the Kingdom of Happiness. No one holds it. No one has the authority to hold that key. That key is your own self, and in the development and the purification and in the incorruptibility of that self alone is the Kingdom of Eternity....
You have been accustomed to being told how far you have advanced, what is your spiritual status. How childish! Who but yourself can tell you if you are incorruptible?....
But those who really desire to understand, who are looking to find that which is eternal, without a beginning and without an end, will walk together with greater intensity, will be a danger to everything that is unessential, to unrealities, to shadows. And they will concentrate, they will become the flame, because they understand. Such a body we must create, and that is my purpose. Because of that true friendship - which you do not seem to know - there will be real co-operation on the part of each one. And this not because of authority, not because of salvation, but because you really understand, and hence are capable of living in the eternal. This is a greater thing than all pleasure, than all sacrifice.
So those are some of the reasons why, after careful consideration for two years, I have made this decision. It is not from a momentary impulse. I have not been persuaded to it by anyone - I am not persuaded in such things. For two years I have been thinking about this, slowly, carefully, patiently, and I have now decided to disband the Order, as I happen to be its Head. You can form other organisations and expect someone else. With that I am not concerned, nor with creating new cages, new decorations for those cages. My only concern is to set men absolutely, unconditionally free.
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Krishnamurti home - Krishnamurti links - Katinka's weblife - Lost? Sitemap
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Will the Wt Split?
by Satanus inbased on the pressure that is building both within the rank and file and in the top management, i was wondering about the possibility of the wt fracturing into 2 groups: fundamentalist and liberal.
the gb has recently taken a back seat to 3 new corporations.
these were added to the multitude of corps they already have.
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raven101
Hi SaintSatan!
Although at this point anything is conceivable, I would be surprised if the org. were to split. It would require a drastic and rapid decrease in members, also the members themselves (the nes leaving would pretty much have to be the ones initiating the liberal branch . . . were the 'old guard' to do it it would be an admission of ignorance. Of course they could always organize a liberal segment on the sly, if things get bad enough I wouldn't be surprised.
Just for curiosities sake I wonder what the liberal policies might be, well I'll bet their blood policy would be different!
How would they change disfellowshipping policies?
Hmmmmm . . . I wonder,
raven101
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Please help, please???? (batting eyelashes)
by outnfree ini was so happy to read the following quote by janh in another thread: about logic vs reason[ did jan mean emotion here?
], i think a factor may well be that fewer women have high education.
it is a worrying trend that women still do not choose education in 'hard sciences.
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raven101
Congratulations on your first college class outnfree! I just finished my fourth full time semester, I really love school. Some words of encouragement, it gets considerably easier once you get through the first couple semesters. Also, never underestimate the value of communication with your professors!
seven006 addressed my take on the assignment with the point about morality being an individual 'reality'.
Was this Q? assigned specifically to address morality?
If not I would change my wording to logic or reason as seven006 suggested, if so the subject of morality itself should take up a significant portion of your paper.
Morality is a personal as well as cultural and societal issue. The prevailing religion of a community or culture will dictate at LEAST the basic framework of a peoples concept of morality. This is evidenced by the very different practices witnessed worldwide.
Infanticide in India and China for example, is commonplace. People who are members of the Jehovahs Witness organization believe it to be a moral necessity to refuse some life saving medical procedures.
There still exist indigenous tribes that practice cannibalism.Personally I would argue that morality is the personal differentiation between right and wrong, therefore, issues like euthanasia should be left entirely to the discretion of the person in question.
I would show examples of the diametric opposition in different cultures (as well as individuals) concepts of morality, illustrate the importance individuals place on their perception of morality, and stress the injustice of imposing upon it.
Have fun!
Raven101
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THEOCRACY looks like FASCISM
by garybuss infascism vs theocracy.
commentary by gary busselman.
theocracy: god rule.
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raven101
This is really an excellent and illuminating point garybuss!
"warlike policies, e.g. Theocratic War Strategy, and hatred of perceived enemies [often dissenting former group members]."
Most certainly, every other human and organization is identified to some degree with 'the ultimate enemy' satan.
"In most cases, fascists have come to power after a nation has suffered an economic collapse, a military defeat, or some other disaster."
Yes, and if you think about it this applies in the case of every individual, when are people indoctrinated ? usually (if not always) at some point of great crisis or need in their lives.
I don't see how anyone can (with correctly applied logic anyway) deny this similarity.
raven101
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Q? Is violence a product of logic, or emotion?
by raven101 inis violence a product of logic, or emotion?
for example the guy who stomped the old gentleman to death in a parking lot, the men who beat their wives, children, and stepchildren to death, the barroom brawls, and gang activities .
are these acts of cool, unbiased logic?.
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raven101
My point, COMF, is to address the age-old established fallacy that men are more logical and less emotional than women, with statistical evidence to the contrary.
raven101
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Q? Is violence a product of logic, or emotion?
by raven101 inis violence a product of logic, or emotion?
for example the guy who stomped the old gentleman to death in a parking lot, the men who beat their wives, children, and stepchildren to death, the barroom brawls, and gang activities .
are these acts of cool, unbiased logic?.
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raven101
IS VIOLENCE A PRODUCT OF LOGIC, OR EMOTION?
For example the guy who stomped the old gentleman to death in a parking lot, the men who beat their wives, children, and stepchildren to death, the barroom brawls, and gang activities . . . are these acts of cool, unbiased logic?
Obviously not. They are acts of uncontrolled, illogically vented emotion.
Which gender (as a whole, I'm not putting all eggs into one basket as SOME people are foolish enough to do) is most prone to succumbing to expression of ILLOGICAL violence?
Think about it.
EverLogical
Raven101