Posts by shepherdless

87

Excellent Conversation At Literature Trolley

by cofty in

yesterday my wife and i enjoyed one of our regular days out at edinburgh - movie, lunch, walk, meal etc.. in the late afternoon while mrs cofty went shopping i had an hour at the excellent museum of scotland and arranged to meet up outside the national gallery on princes street.

on my way back i saw the jw trolley was at the usual spot on the royal mile.

there was an older man and a young woman standing well back trying hard to look inconspicuous.

shepherdless

Quarterback - JW's do not take the Genesis account literally. When it says the Earth was created in 6 days, a day is not understood to be 24 hrs long.

Yes, that is what I meant when I said they aren't "young earth" creationists.

Quarterback - You do realize that some scientists accept the Creation account when it comes to explain how it all started such as in the Big Bang theory.

I have never read anywhere a scientist in any scientific literature stating something like, "therefore the creation account must be correct..." in relation to the origin of the universe. By the way, can you specify this "Creation account" in Genesis (or elsewhere) that explains the Big Bang theory?

Quarterback - I don't think you can get to a version of evolution by logic, deduction or reason.

Well I can't agree on that. To me it is just the obvious explanation for so much I see in the animal kingdom and the plant kingdom. It explains why certain insects become resistant to pesticides, why certain diseases become resistant to antibiotics etc.

Anyway, each to their own. I expect Cofty will be along soon with a few questions for you.

87

Excellent Conversation At Literature Trolley

by cofty in

yesterday my wife and i enjoyed one of our regular days out at edinburgh - movie, lunch, walk, meal etc.. in the late afternoon while mrs cofty went shopping i had an hour at the excellent museum of scotland and arranged to meet up outside the national gallery on princes street.

on my way back i saw the jw trolley was at the usual spot on the royal mile.

there was an older man and a young woman standing well back trying hard to look inconspicuous.

shepherdless

Quarterback - He was correct in telling you that he is not a Creationist. The Creationists believe that a Creative day was 24 hrs long.

No, JW's are creationists. Maybe they aren't "young earth creationists", but they are still creationists by any sensible meaning of the word.

Quarterback - I don't believe in Evolution because I believe that our wonderful planet, and Solar system is so amazing that it couldn't be a matter of chance, it was created by a intelligent designer.

What has the formation of the universe got to do with Evolution? You do realise that most mainstream Christians accept Evolution, even if God/Jehovah created the universe?

Quarterback - It's not only JW's that believe in Creation that way, but many other intelligent people do as well.

The only people who believe in creationism (as opposed to Evolution) are members of fundamentalist christian churches, or Muslim. In fact many practicing Muslims believe evolution occurs.

Further, I suspect the only reason anyone believes in creationism in this day and age, is that they had a childhood indoctrination to that effect. You can't get to a Genesis version of history by logic, deduction or reason.

8

Trustworthy JW Lawyers????

by Uzzah in

i will reserve comment but mr. pole has regularly represented the canadian branch of the jws'.

he is their go to lawyer when needing non-direct society representation.. disappointed at how slimy he has become.

he and i used to be friends.

shepherdless

Looks like that happened around 3 years ago. I would hope that that lawyer was struck off or severely punished.

36

Article from Jamaica: Jehovah's Witnesses' properties for sale - Rising costs force religious group to go small

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/news/20160410/jehovahs-witnesses-properties-sale-rising-costs-force-religious-group-go-small jehovah's witnesses' properties for sale - rising costs force religious group to go small.

sunday | april 10, 2016 | 12:00 am by erica virtue.

norman grindley.

shepherdless

Since this thread is still going...

The reference to "temples" in the news article was probably just the reporter not knowing the correct terminology.

After I first commented on the article, I did a brief bit of research. It appears that the result of the 2011 census was as follows (I could only find percentages on wikipedia, not actual numbers):

Protestant 64.8%, comprising : Seventh Day, Adventist 12.0%, Pentecostal 11.0%, Other Church of God 9.2%, New Testament Church of God 7.2%, Baptist 6.7%, Church of God in Jamaica 4.8%, Church of God of Prophecy 4.5%, Anglican 2.8%, United Church 2.1%, Methodist 1.6%, Revived 1.4%, Brethren 0.9%, Moravian 0.7%;

Roman Catholic 2.2%;

Jehovah's Witness 1.9%;

Rastafarian 1.1%;

other 6.5%;

none 21.3%;

unspecified 2.3%.

I did find the census form on the following website (bottom left corner):

http://statinja.gov.jm/Popcensus.aspx

I suspect that the reason the census suggested that 1.9% of the population were JW's (instead of around 0.6%) is a combination of the following:

(1) Jehovahs Witnesses are high on the list of religions to choose on the census form.

(2) Most people chose a religion on the census (nearly 80%) despite "no religion" being a clear option on the form, and I suspect there is a social tendency to associate with a religion, if only in name.

(3) The country has a literacy rate of 88%, which is one of the worst in the world outside of Africa.

I think a similar explanation applies to a number of other surprising percentages and absences in the list above. Every religion listed above, was specifically on the census form. The absence of Mormons (for example) is probably because they were not specifically listed as an option.

---------------------

Separately, I think the substance of the article indicates that Watchtower is still cost cutting and selling assets wherever possible, even after sending home all those bethelites and releasing those special pioneers. Watchtower must still be under some cashflow stress.

36

Article from Jamaica: Jehovah's Witnesses' properties for sale - Rising costs force religious group to go small

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/news/20160410/jehovahs-witnesses-properties-sale-rising-costs-force-religious-group-go-small jehovah's witnesses' properties for sale - rising costs force religious group to go small.

sunday | april 10, 2016 | 12:00 am by erica virtue.

norman grindley.

shepherdless

At the last check, in 2011, Jamaica recorded 50,849 Jehovah's Witnesses, up from 44,203 10 years earlier.

But according to the last Yearbook, there were 11,815 average publishers (down from 11,889) spread across 188 congregations, and 37,111 memorial attendees.

36

Article from Jamaica: Jehovah's Witnesses' properties for sale - Rising costs force religious group to go small

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/news/20160410/jehovahs-witnesses-properties-sale-rising-costs-force-religious-group-go-small jehovah's witnesses' properties for sale - rising costs force religious group to go small.

sunday | april 10, 2016 | 12:00 am by erica virtue.

norman grindley.

shepherdless

I assume that $45 million sale price quoted in the article is Jamaican dollars, which is equivalent to around US$370,000. (At least according to a currency converter on the net.)

21

Tell me what you think.

by Aroq in

ok, i'm willing, and thinking about going to the meetings, but there is a catch.

i'm not, nor ever be a jw.

i know too much about their beliefs.

shepherdless

Hi Aroq,

if your situation is vaguely like mine, I would say no. Don't go. If necessary, check jw.org clandestinely, so you have knowledge of what nonsense they are going to be told at each meeting.

My wife is an ardent JW (and lost cause) who also takes the kids to KH. I never attend. Instead I teach my kids maths and science where possible, help them with their homework, etc. I also have made sure they have good access to books and the internet. My oldest knows heaps about evolution, dna, carbon dating, abiogenesis, quantum mechanics, multiverses, ancient history, church history, periodic table, electrical circuits and electronics etc.

My tactic seems to be working. My kids seem to have picked up that most JW's know virtually nothing about those topics, whereas they learn a bit from me, learn a bit more at school, and learn a bit elsewhere, and it is all coherent. One of my kids (primary school age) said something the other day along the lines that Elders are uneducated people. At least 2 of my kids accept evolution is a fact.

I don't know your situation, but I suspect that if you refuse to go, and are the one to teach your kids stuff (tiny non-controversial bits at a time) your kids will soon be thinking that daddy is not the ignorant one. You will also be teaching them that they don't have to pander to nonsense.

Anyway, that is my 2c worth.

19

The Watchtower Society’s 607 BCE Foundation Exposed

by Doug Mason in

the governing body and its watchtower society claims that in 1919 it was appointed by jehovah god and jesus christ to represent all of their earthly kingdom interests, to be their unique voice and sole representative towards all people on earth.

the watchtower’s authority lives or dies with that claim..

the society’s critical date of 1919 is calculated from the dates of events in the 6th century bce.

shepherdless

Hi Doug,

Essentially, my point is that the chronology chart on page 32 has 537 BC occurring before 539 BC (ie in between Oct 607 BC and Oct 539 BC). Either that is a mistake, or the chart can't be called a chronology.

Cheers

Shepherdless

19

The Watchtower Society’s 607 BCE Foundation Exposed

by Doug Mason in

the governing body and its watchtower society claims that in 1919 it was appointed by jehovah god and jesus christ to represent all of their earthly kingdom interests, to be their unique voice and sole representative towards all people on earth.

the watchtower’s authority lives or dies with that claim..

the society’s critical date of 1919 is calculated from the dates of events in the 6th century bce.

shepherdless

I had a quick read. I will read it a bit more thoroughly, a bit later. Well done, and well presented.

Minor point; there appears to be an error in the summary chart on page 32.

26

What was jesus doing for the first 30 years of his life?

by atomant in

30 years is a long time in the life of a human yet little is written about this time frame,l wonder why?

shepherdless

Side question from a non-JW: What has Jesus being doing for the last 102 years?