Posts by shepherdless

35

Some recent baptism figures in the UK - is there a "bounce back"?

by freddo in

jw
friends

well, round my way (south of the uk) all the way up to and including the regional conventions this summer, baptism numbers have been extremely low.

but i have just received news of three recent circuit assembly days where the figures seem to be higher.

(all have been across the last three weekends at a uk assembly hall in october).

shepherdless

Darkspilver: Excluding the anomalies of very low publisher numbers and high ratio countries... It seems interesting there's really only three significant countries reporting similiar increases to Britain back in the 1980's, namely
Angola 1:210, 111,123 publishers, 8% increase
Philippines 1:499, 199,551 publishers, 5% increase
Russia 1:832, 172,977 publishers, 5% increase

I think the most likely reason for the supposed increase in Russia is the annexation of Crimea. If you look at the corresponding drop in Ukraine and do a back-of-envelope calc using Crimea's population, it seems to explain both the drop in Ukraine and the increase in Russia.

Angola's numbers are strange, especially when compared to some neighboring countries (the 2 Congos, Malawi). Also note that the increase in Angola is way above the number of baptisms.

In relation to Philippines, Watchtower seems to have more success in poorer Catholic countries, and perhaps this is an example of that. The ratio of publisher to population suggests there will be a lot more increase before there is a plateau.

556

The Watchtower are Right About Blood...

by cofty in

... but, they fail to take note of one important detail.. i believe that if we are going to have any chance of reasoning with a jw about blood, this is the place we need to begin.. don't try to convince them that it was only a dietary law.

it wasn't, and they will never go along with it.. don't tell them that saving a life is more important than obeying a law, even a seemingly trivial one.

they take pride in obedience.

shepherdless

Marked [Note: there are 2 threads]

Excellent work, Cofty.

14

Statue of Marsyas died on a stake?

by enigma1863 in

so jws have been spreading this picture around claiming it supports the roman torture stake belief.

this is the statue of marsyas the satyr, a greek mythical creature.

he lost a challenge to apollo and was flayed.

shepherdless

Someone years ago called Leolaia posted an excellent and thoroughly researched article on the issue of what wooden implement was used to kill Jesus, titled "The facts on crucifixion, stauros, and the "torture stake". Here is a link:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/92381/facts-on-crucifixion-stauros-torture-stake

4

I need to know what is truth?

by Chook in

is it a perception only.

shepherdless

There have been some threads on this, or similar to this, in the past. They seem to end up being duels between sbf and Cofty.

My 2c worth:

"Truths" can be divided into "absolute truths" and "perceptions". Some people confuse the issue by mixing terminology.

On any particular issue there is an "absolute truth", independent of what one may or may not observe. However, in very many situations, we have no way of knowing "absolute truths". We have to rely on our observations and other limited information. These allow us to interpret some things to be correct and others to be incorrect. They are only perceptions, but they are clearly true relative to alternative propositions. I have heard them called "relative truths".

Some people will point out an example where a "relative truth" (ie a perception mis-labelled as a "truth") was not truth, and highlight the conundrum. There is no conundrum, it is just word games.

Example: On another thread, sbf used the analogy of an earthworm's view of world. As far as the earthworm is concerned, the world is flat. That would be a true statement as far as the worm is concerned. Well, actually, no. It is just the worm's perception.

We perceive the world to be round, which is also a perception (or relative truth). This probably matches the absolute truth, in this case. However, if an alien from the 6th dimension looked at the Earth and could see that in fact the Earth was not round, that would not mean that the absolute truth had changed. It would mean our perception was wrong.

I will stop, now.

9

another kingdom hall closing

by nowwhat? in

this one in avon lake ohio 25 miles west of cleveland.

only one congregation there.

average attendance was only 40..

shepherdless

I am not very well connected to the JW world, but I know of a congregation that was disbanded and another that is struggling for numbers, in my country.

I am planning to post something on the UK accounts, released a couple of months ago. (I haven't had the time, but there are some interesting points to make.) One thing I noticed is that it appears that there was only one "new-build" Kingdom Hall ("Ferryfield") in the whole of the territory known as "Britain", in the last financial year.

16

The Org is Growing???? Really???????

by The Searcher in

watchtower january 2017 - par.

15 - "we live in exciting times.

the earthly part of jehovah’s organization is growing in many ways, but growth necessitates change.".

shepherdless

I suspect what minuscule growth they have had in recent times, is largely to do with squeezing the numbers and definitions to extreme.

I was shocked to discover that all my kids were "unbaptized publishers". None of them go door to door. I am pretty sure that for the youngest 2, none of their (primary school) classmates would even know they were JW's. It wouldn't surprise me to find out the cat is an unbaptized publisher as well.

29

Beth Sarim

by HereIgo in

how many of you know about this san diego mansion?

i just found out about it recently.

apparently it was built for old testament faithful men to live in upon resurrection in 1925 such as abraham, moses etc.

shepherdless

Smiddy, she has already seen the ARC videos. I doubt if a video of Jackson dancing around a pentagon, biting chicken heads off, could shake her faith in the 7 gnomes in Brooklyn.

Drifting Away, the approach I used was to mention to my wife that I had read a couple of brief mentions of beth sarim, but I couldn't find in the WOL index. I asked if she had heard of it. She tried to look it up on jw dot org, or somewhere, and found a brief official explanation. (Which meant she couldn't deny it exists.) From there, you can then say you found it on wikipedia. You can then detail the full history.

37

Why are there still so many of humanity that are immersed onto the lies, ignorance and delusions of religion ?

by Finkelstein in

all religions under critical examination has been recognized inherently as formative lies devised to appeal to human emotions and as a means to cultivate power and control for a select propagating few.

knowledge acquired through scientific inquiry and evaluation has proven that all religious adherence was mostly drawn out human ignorance targeted toward the emotions and consciousness of people.

here we are in the 21 century and people like the jws are still adhering to the lies of christianity and how this religion developed over time.

shepherdless

Why are there still so many of humanity that are immersed onto the lies, ignorance and delusions of religion ?

I agree with a lot of what others have already said. I think there is an additional factor. Most of human existence (and certainly virtually all of recorded human existence) we have had community based gods and religion. They have helped to pull a community together. I am sure that 3000 years ago, or even 1000 years ago, a united community would have been a far far safer place to live, than in a disunited community.

Thus as far as the forces of natural selection, for most of human history, it has been an overall advantage to be inclined to faith. In other words, it is in our genes to be religious.

That will change, over time. For virtually the first time in history, the disadvantages of being religious (eg being open to manipulation and exploitation) outweigh the advantages (community protection). Nevertheless, i think religious superstition will be around for many centuries to come, yet.

29

Beth Sarim

by HereIgo in

how many of you know about this san diego mansion?

i just found out about it recently.

apparently it was built for old testament faithful men to live in upon resurrection in 1925 such as abraham, moses etc.

shepherdless

I tricked my wife into looking up what Beth Sarim was, once. It made for an interesting evening. I think there was steam coming out of her ears. She was lashing out at the kids for not using a knife and fork properly, around the dinner table, etc.

After a while the cognitive dissonance must have kicked in and she calmed down. She probably doesn't even remember it now.

39

Can Someone Explain To Me, Are The Org In Debt Or Rich?

by pale.emperor in

hi guys.. im aware of the orgs blatant hints to donate, donate, donate to the org, the sacking of bethel staff, selling of buildings, reducing mags and books, emphasis on digital rather than physical books etc which is obviously a money saver - but are the wt org in money difficulty?

because elsewhere on here and on youtube there's stories of the watchtower being mega rich, one even called it "a billion dollar organization".

and if there is any money in there, who's benefiting off it?

shepherdless

I'd put money on UK / Aus /NZ and US law having a similar quota...

No, that seems to be a law, unique to Canada. It seems a good one, though.