salvation : "heaven, hell and the afterlife.
"the jehovah's witnesses believe only 144,000 will make it to heaven, they dismiss the concept of a literal hell, and do not believe in the afterlife.
in this new video, i explain from the scriptures who go to heaven, who go to hell and is the afterlife proven in the bible?
Seems about as beneficial as warning about the dangers of trusting a cyclops by using quotes from The Odyssey.
It’s all a fictional danger (or “reward” if you like the idea of kissing the ass of an all powerful being who still needs your worship to stroke his own ego) written about in a book of unsubstantiated supernatural events that are made no more credible as a factual version of history by virtue of their being written thousands of years ago.
when i was a jw and still living with my parents i remember the way my father held what could almost be described as contempt for archeologists, paleontologists, and other scientists who dared to try explain what happened in past.
he justified this attidtude with the argument that these people don’t have enough evidence to make such claims with any certainty.
however, i see now that his viewpoint was more likely a defense mechanism to protect his presupposed conclusion that everything described in the bible actually happened.
When I was a JW and still living with my parents I remember the way my father held what could almost be described as contempt for archeologists, paleontologists, and other scientists who dared to try explain what happened in past. He justified this attidtude with the argument that these people don’t have enough evidence to make such claims with any certainty.
However, I see now that his viewpoint was more likely a defense mechanism to protect his presupposed conclusion that everything described in the Bible actually happened. I remember when I was making my exit from the cult I tried to explain my agnostic atheist position to my parents and it was like talking to a wall because no evidence I provided to prove the Bible was inaccurate was ever good enough for them. The evidence of scientists and historians in support of scenarios that don’t involve magic was just simply too outlandish for my parents to accept. Their entire narrative of history requires that miracles, magic, angles, and demons all influenced the world in very tangible ways in one particular geographic area in the distant past and between then and now such magical forces have stopped manifesting themselves in such obvious ways for no apparent reason.
I’ve recent thought of an illustration that exemplifies the absurdity of such a position and thought I might share it. It’s kind like if someone was accused of stealing something from a store, but they insist that a magic gremlin put the stolen item in their bag, and then when video evidence is produced of the person in question stealing said object they insist that the gremlin used magic to alter the footage, and now that the gremlin has set him up it disappeared without a trace and will never be heard from again.
In short; it’s frustrating when someone will heavily scrutinize a plausible scenario and demand more evidence, but will then go right around and accept an explanation that literally invokes magic without a second thought.
on rotten tomatoes, apostasy has 100% success from critics (very rarely that critics are unanimous in their approval of a film) and 97% from the audience.
i have loved reading the reviews as they are almost all ex jw's but there is one glaring review that is almost certainly from one active jw who is pleading that the film be banned, even though they haven't actually seen it (typical) and it made me laugh:.
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/apostasy_2017/reviews/?type=user.
if someone does the same things over and over again and says sorry and then does it again and you point out that their apologies don't mean anything anymore, then they accuse you of not being forgiving enough, who is in the wrong?
(i mean as in constantly over a long period of time).
im trying to work out whether it was just part of the persons mental/ emotional manipulation tactics or whether i have the wrong view and i'm not forgiving enough.
That’s not a healthy dynamic and you’re under no obligation to maintain a relationship that is causing you constant grief. Their is a difference between being forgiving and allowing someone to take advantage of your kindness. I would be especially wary of someone who believes their apology is all that is required to make things right and attempt to use guilt to manipulate you if you don’t comply. Manipulative people make poor friends.
i was very lucky to have be dating somebody who didn’t run and snitch on me when i started having questions and showing him research i did, instead he listened to me, and after a few arguements, he did wake up as well.
it really didn’t take much to wake him up, and he was more just tired of the crazy witnesses in general.
and now we are planning on getting married and fading together so that our families can at least enjoy our wedding, that special time in life, before we possibly loose them one day.
My advice would be to leave the org behind as soon as you are able to live independently from your parents and not try to create the facade of believing.
If you can’t be honest with your family what kind of a relationship will you really have with them anyway? Even if they think you’re just inactive they will constantly bug you about “coming back to Jehovah,” and down the line if you have kids they are going to do their damndest to indoctrinate your children. Also in my opinion if your boyfriend can’t do his own research and come to his own conclusions then there is no guarantee he won’t be swayed back into the religion be some elder spinning a logical fallacy that your boyfriend isn’t trained to look for. I’m not gonna lie, it’s not an easy path and you’re going to miss your family at times, but I don’t believe you’ll never be happy if you have to hide your authentic self from people close to you.
when i was an elder back in the 1970's i loved to debate and challenge ministers, preachers, and holy rollers.
now you can be a loyal jdub fully indoctrinated for 30 years but just take a peek at an apostate website and you are doomed.
yes, satan now has you by the gonads and all of the years of being at the meetings, all of the family worship nights, all of the conventions, and all of the personal study just go up in a cloud of smoke.
Because apostates are "mentally diseased" and JWs are afraid it's contagious. The Governing Body told them, so it must be true.
i have been out a good 10+ years and until recently didnt pay much attention to what the jehovahs are up to.. why have they taken this turn with the bunker videos and making all the brainwashed people like my parents pack a go bag.
now let me just clarify.
im a military man i believe everyone should have an element of preparedness canned goods,bottled water and a bug out bag is a great addition ( ill stop waffling on about that now).. but what concerns me is the fact they are advising elderly people to bug out.
The little cartoon kids are Caleb and Sophia. Watchtower's latest tool for indoctrinating young children. Back when I still lived with my parents my mother would have my 3-year-old cousin watch practically all of the twenty videos every time she watched him. I feel so sorry for the generations of JW kids who are going to be force fed this crap now.
what are your views on the golden ratio or fibonacci sequence?
i know jws and some other groups use this as proof of gods existence.
i'm still looking into the debate but was wondering what others thought.
I would say that the argument works just as well for evolution and natural selection and certainly doesn’t serve as evidence against.
Take the sunflower for example, it makes evolutionary sense that the most effecient way to store seeds in the same amount of space would be seen there because that particular formation would have more seeds than any other and would therefore have more “offspring” and thus over time it would become the dominant form of its species.
As for the fact that this sort of thing follows a mathematical pattern, I don’t see how that proves a creator without invoking the logical fallacy that a creator must exist to make the patterns. The patterns in and of themselves don’t prove anything about their origins.
The argument for intelligent design insists that there is an obvious difference between something occuring by chance and something designed and that everything around us was “obviously designed.” However, how can one claim to be able to recognize the difference between design and chance if one presupposes that everything was designed? If you don’t know what something existing by chance looks like then how can you definitively say that what exists around us isn’t just that? You can’t. All you can do in engage in a confirmation bias that looks at the good things and calls it design, while simultaneously dismissing all the things that make no logical sense from a designer’s standpoint.
Evolution and natural selection however provide logical explanations for both extremely efficient mechanisms and crazy bullshit that makes no logical sense, and both of those things exist in nature in vast quantities whether creationists are willing to admit it or not.
i've been meaning to join an online ex-jw community for quite some time, and finally have made the effort to do so.
i was raised in a small/mid size city in the northeast united states.
i am currently 27 years old, just about five years fully out of the organization (after about two years of "fading" away).
I was also baptized before I was anywhere close to mature (10 years old) and even though both my parents where in the truth things could be a little inconsistent. I feel like me and my sister got the short end of the stick as opposed to our older siblings. They both went to a public high school and got to watch what would be considered bad by some Witnesses (Pirates of the Caribbean, Lord of the Rings, etc.) But after they both graduated and got married it’s like my mother wanted to turn the dial up on our “spirituality.” (Though with limited success) Me and my sister started homeschooling when I was in sixth grade so that me, her, and my mother could regular pioneer. (never got more than thirty hours and got asked by the elders to withdraw six months in) I didn’t mind homeschooling at the time because I didn’t have many friends anyway, though it definitely caused me difficulties when I started college. After my oldest siblings moved out my parents also tried to have a weekly family study, (which we never had when my older siblings lived there) which was incredibly boring and fortunately only worked out once every month or two.
I’m very glad I found a non-religious girl who is very happy being that way. I would hate to ever put my children in a position like the ones you or I were put in growing up.
in late may 2017, i told my parents how i really felt about the religion they had raised me in, and by early june i was out of their house.
i've done a lot since then.
i let my hair and beard grow out a bit.
I also recently updated my profile picture, which was taken by my girlfriend when we graduated together earlier this year. She and those on this forum are among the major influences that helped me once I left the cult behind.
