Posts by rem

25

Deism- A Religion for the 21st Century?

by Big Jim in

jw
friends

deism - a religion for the 21st century?.

more than 200 yrs ago deism made its mark on history.

many noteworthy people including a number of the founders of the united states were deists.

rem

Hey Sunchild,

Sorry if I came across harsh. My point was, and I think others have said the same thing, that the concept of spirituality to some becomes a "god of the gaps" theory (whether you believe in god or not). Spiritual explanations are fine if they are fulfilling to you emotionally, but they certainly are not rational explanations. Rational explanations are based on evidence. Now, I'm not trying to be derogatory at all when I say that people believe irrational explanations - they almost always seem more intuitive and comforting. But I think it is important for us to realize the difference between a rational explanation and an irrational one.

A rational explanation might be - there is no explanation right now - there is not enough evidence to form a conclusion. An irrational explanation would be to say that a phenomenon had a supernatural or spiritual cause, since we don't have a natural explanation yet. This has been shown time and time again in history to be faulty reasoning and has even hindered progress towards true knowledge. For every phenomenon that was earlier attributed to spiritual or supernatural means before, science has found a natural cause.

I know you value science and I know we probably agree on a lot of stuff. I've read many of your posts and I think you are a very cool person. I think that you have an advantage of being better educated in such things than many others on this board (most JW's are not very educated in these disciplines). I think where many of us get upset is when people are ignorant of scientific understanding (which you are not) and have a distrust of science. Many times these people have a belief in the supernatural which leads to superstition. It is just sad that in a day and age like we have today with so much knowledge available, there are so many ignorant people, and much of it is due to religion (since the majority of people seem to think spirituality is tied to religion).

I have nothing but respect for your beliefs and for the way you express your spirituality, but that is only because you seem to be balanced in your views. You don't mistrust science like fundies do, but you find pleasure in your spirituality. That is fine, as long as those spiritual explanations are not taught in schools as a competitor to science (as creationism has tried to do - a spiritual explanation for the beginning of the universe).

I think we are on the same page, really. The only place where we seem to differ is in our definition of spirituality. Mine is strictly an internal appreciation of life and the universe. Yours includes external phenomena that seems to tie the universe together. Just different ways of looking at the world, I guess. Of course we both believe that our own views are more valuable, otherwise, what would be the point of having them?

Sincerely,

rem

8

To: Uncle Onion & Ros

by Amazing in

jw
friends

hi uncle & ros: buried deep down in tina's post uncle asked whether i was an atheist and ros noted that she thought i was a liberal christian.

i have been going through an evolution in my life, but i will try to give a good snapshot of where i am at now.

i may yet change one way or another:.

rem

Amazing,

Your thought about the garden of eden made me think of the Gnostics. Didn't they believe that God was really the bad guy in the garden of eden? I have a book with some Gnostic writings and I remembered something like that. I'll have to take a look. I just thought you might like to know that others have had a similar take on the story as you in the past.

rem

16

Do u believe in God??

by JW72 in

jw
friends

hi everyone, i don't know if i believe in god or not.. can someone give me a really convincing reason why to believe in him or not.. or is it just down to faith???.

faith in god is a bit like playing the lottery.. you have to sacrifice 1 a week, but you might just win.

you may as well, it's not much of a sacrifice, infact it helps people (lottery money helps projects/investments), but the prize is well worth winning.. anyone like my anallergy (is that how you spell it?).

rem

The problem with believing in god because of "Pascal's Wager" is which god is the true one? There is Brahma, Allah, Yahweh, Zeus, and more. Most of these gods say they are the only god and there is a specific way to worship them. So now you are still screwed if you choose the wrong god. The god you choose usually depends on where you are born. If you are born here in the US, chances are you will believe Jesus or Jehovah (or a combination thereof) are god. If you are born in India, your concept of god will be very different. But in either case, you are offending another god - actually many other gods. So really the odds aren't much better either way. As an atheist, you actually stand the chance to offend less gods because you worship and believe in no god.

rem

21

How do you define spirituality?

by Sunchild in

jw
friends

it's a general question for anyone, and it's a very personal one that requires personal answers.

i'm not asking what the bible says, what science says, what the dictionary says, or what your mother says.

i'm asking how you, as an individual with your own ideas, feelings and perceptions, conceptualize spirituality.

rem

I see spirituality as an appreciation of nature, art, and life. To me it is just a feeling - nothing tangible. I personally don't feel there is anything more out there and I don't feel any special connectedness with nature, other than the awe I have for the sheer beauty and the complexities of the processes that make it work. When I was a Witness, I used to have such feelings for the Organization, Jesus, and Jehovah.

I believe most everyone has such feelings, but they focus them on different areas of life. Some feel a connectedness with nature, some with their religion, some with art, etc. I think that many people interpret these feelings as something more than they really are - instead of a state of mind, spirituality becomes something external and beyond our grasp. I feel this is why it is so very difficult to define the concept of spirituality - because it is something different to almost everyone, and there is nothing really tangible to define.

rem

25

Deism- A Religion for the 21st Century?

by Big Jim in

jw
friends

deism - a religion for the 21st century?.

more than 200 yrs ago deism made its mark on history.

many noteworthy people including a number of the founders of the united states were deists.

rem

Which is a likely possibility. However, I also think it's possible that there's something more to it, and I don't understand why some people seem so determined to exlcude that possibility. I don't see why anyone would want to. To reach for the Divine is to reach for your own highest potential... or at least that's what it is for me. Symbols and such are just useful tools for getting there.

So are all possibilities just as valid as others are? How do you differentiate between probable possibilities and ludicrous ones? What if I said the “something more to it” is an Invisible Pink Unicorn in my head? Would that not be just as valid a position in your view?

Science helps us to sort through all of the chaff to get to the real gems. Gods of the gaps don’t have a very long life span in this age as science digs deeper to the root causes of phenomena. To me, spirituality is just an appreciation of life and the wonders around us; science explains those things.

For things that we don’t yet understand, I don’t see any reason to create an ad hoc spiritual explanation. History shows that these superstitious explanations are always wrong. If there is a phenomenon, though, then science should be able to measure it. If it is not measurable, then it doesn’t exist – it is either a state of mind or a misunderstanding that will be cleared up by the scientific method in the future. If it truly is beneficial – or has any affect at all, then it should be able to be studied and measured otherwise how is the phenomenon beneficial (or any other affect)? This is where science comes in. In my view, adding a spiritual explanation would only get in the way and hinder real progress and understanding of the phenomenon. I believe history shows this to be true.

Maybe that didn’t make any sense. :)

rem

5

Old Memories

by Abaddon in

jw
friends

today for no particular reason i was mulling about the door-knocking.

perhaps it was the enui and dispair generated by having the second laptop go down on me in two days... and it's not nearly as interesting as it sounds.. anyway, i was musing; as with many of us i've knocked on a fair few doors.. however, i've only had my door knocked on twice.

once as a dub, by some moonies, and once after i'd left when i was in sunday morning debauch girlfriend mode and asked them (jw's) to call back which they never did.

rem

....But I really am always right. No?

rem

22

I'm going to be a father!

by dedalus in

jw
friends

i've been a sorry excuse of a poster lately, so i'm not really in tune with what's going on with the board, but i still know enough people here to make an announcement: foxy, my fiancee, is pregnant!.

so it happened a couple of years before we were planning it, before we could even get married, before i've finished my postgraduate degree -- but so what?

we're financially sturdy enough to pull it off, i'll be able to complete the degree and get a good job, and no amount of financial anxiety seems to offset the excitement i feel to be having a child.

rem

Dedalus and Foxy,

Congratulations, my man! That is so great. My cousin-in-law just had a baby last weekend and I had my first cigar ever to celebrate. Looks like I'll be enjoying another one soon!

Mrs. Rem and I are so happy for you two. We will keep you in our thoughts, and we will be expecting pictures! :)

I hope the news goes well with your father. I'm sure he will be excited to be a grandfather. Perhaps this will give him a new outlook on things and it will improve your relationship? From my own experience (your mileage may vary) most JW's seem to be pretty realistic about such things and many times are even supportive when a baby is involved. That's what happened with my cousin-in-law and some other family members of mine.

Wishing you two the best! Don't be such a stranger, dad. :D

rem

60

jws hassle 3 yr old

by Blackcat in

jw
friends

seems the jws are getting desprate for recruits, an article from a localpaper....... http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/story3.html thought you all would be interested!

!

rem

My knee-jerk reaction to this is if you are so paranoid about adults talking to your children without your supervision, make sure they play in the back yard where they will not come in contact with the rest of the world.

I confess that I spoke to children out in service. I was a bit more cautious, though. I didn't want to look like a perv or anything, and I was sometimes afraid that a child might start screaming "Danger Stranger!" and that would not have been a good witness. But the fact is that if you are not going to be constantly watching your children and you are paranoid about people talking to them, then remove them from the threat. That is the responsible thing. Expecting pervs on the street to act like gentlemen is a bit naive to me.

rem

82

Has anyone felt like leaving God altogether?

by lookingnow22 in

jw
friends

i know that the answer is yes, but it would help me to hear your sentiments on this.

.

after you decided that the wbts, and thus jw's were not god's chosen earthly organization did you feel like you wanted to leave and forget god altogether?.

rem

My appeal is for everyone to at least think about leaving god. Most of us came out of the Watchtower and we thought long and hard about organized religion. Some of us gave up on organized religion; some others embrace it. For those of us who came to the conclusion that organized religion is bunk, why stop there? Why not rethink everything – including the god question?

I know that I was afraid to even think about the subject of whether god exists at first. But as I shed all of my Watchtower superstitions, I found that I was in control of my life and that if there was a god, surely he/she/it would not mind me verifying its existence. And if I found that god did not exists anyway, then there is no way to offend him by questioning (unless he’s hiding from all of us).

For those that take the time to contemplate this question it can be very rewarding, no matter what the outcome. If you find that you still believe in god, then you are that much better off because you have proved it to yourself. If you find that there is no evidence for god, then you may find a sense of freedom and responsibility in your life that can be very satisfying.

I just think everyone owes it to themselves to at least give the subject serious thought. Don’t dismiss it out of hand as if god’s existence is a given. It’s time to rethink all of those concepts that we just knew were true not so long ago.

Rem

4

"Vicar in a Tutu" ...

by elin in

(written by moz).

i was minding mind business lifting some lead off the roof of the holy name church .

it was worthwhile living a laughable life just to set my eyes on a blistering sight of a vicar in a tu-tu .

rem

Ahhhh the Smiths! Now I'm gonna go through my collection and put all of my Smiths CD's in the car. Haha - Vicar in a Tutu is one of my all time favorites!!! :)

rem, who loves to sing along to Morrisey and Smiths songs