I love Mark Twain. I have a collection of essays called The Letters From Earth on order from Amazon. I read most of that essay on the net a while back - it's pretty funny. I like Mark Twain because he is brutally honest - especially when it comes to religion.
rem
yeah, i remember the lecture we got a few years back about calling them "no-blood" cards or medical directives.
not that that changed anything in the witness vernucular, of course :).
but what about actual blood cards?
<Thread Hijack>
Simon,
Are you already a daddy? You look like such a young'n in your picture. I'm 25 now. I think I'll be ready for kids in a couple years. I'd like to get all this JW crap behind us before my wife and I procreate. :)
rem</Thread Hijack>
i don't know how far back i was thinking about this, but it came to mind once again as i spoke to my father, who was addicted to marijuana for 27 years.
it took everything away from him, including his family (myself, my sister, and my mother).
he says a higher power must have helped him through these times and caused him to stop (4 years clean this december; wahoo!
Hey Stephen,
I guess it comes down to our perspective on life. In my case, I see (human) life progressing in an age of enlightenment unmatched by any other time in history. People are living longer, better lives due to scientific progress. There are definitely problems that need to be solved - there always will be, but I don't think praying is going to solve them. Hard work, industriousness, imagination, creativity - these are some of the human qualities that improve life.
Depending on your point of view, you could say that praying saved the Jews who survived the concentration camps, or you could say it was the hard work and determination of the allied forces. I guess it's hard to prove one way or another.
One thing to remember is that I'm not blaming god for anything. Since I don't believe in god, there is no way that I can put any blame upon him for the suffering that goes on in the world. To me it would be like blaming Santa Claus for the starving children. I don't think that placing blame is all that constructive, though. We need some creative, practical ideas to ease much of the suffering in the world.
rem
i don't know how far back i was thinking about this, but it came to mind once again as i spoke to my father, who was addicted to marijuana for 27 years.
it took everything away from him, including his family (myself, my sister, and my mother).
he says a higher power must have helped him through these times and caused him to stop (4 years clean this december; wahoo!
d0rkyd00d,
I think you are in good company with many of the rational thinkers on this board.
I used to believe in a higher power, but one day I decided to stop praying. I found that my life went just as well as before. I realized that I was just talking to myself through all those years of praying - mentally psyching myself up for success. My main experiment was my first public talk - I didn't even pray right before my talk like I had for so many talks before. As it turned out, it was one of my best talks ever - no need for a higher power there.
As you said before, it doesn't make sense that god would answer one prayer by providing a Cadillac as a service car, but not answer the prayers of starving children accross the globe.
Enjoyed your posts,
rem
in the bizarre world that exist within the watchtower society headquarters in brooklyn you can find all kinds of strange statements.
particularly funny is the use of the expressions indisputable/physical facts.
according to the watchtower from 1922, indisputable facts showed that jesus second presence began in 1874!
It's quite obvious that everyone has forgotten the Society's favorite speculation word: Obviously, or it is Obvious.
When the Society decides something is Obvious, then it is obvious that their argument is on pretty shaky ground.
rem
my wife has just left for the memorial.. just before she went she asked me to come...this was the second year in a row that i declined.
i hated seeing her so sad, i almost agreed to go just to cheer her up but that would betray her in a very real sense.
to go to the memorial would be an admission in her eyes (and other jws) that i still believe deep down that it is the truth.
Congrats, Dedalus!
Sounds like you two really have something special there.
Life is good,
rem
.........without smacking anyone!!!.
but man!
it was tough!.
Expatbrit,
Your experience was so similar to mine last night! I didn't even have a chance to enter the hall before the love bombing began. My wife and I were like, "Oh, boy - here it comes..." I could relate to almost every experience you shared.
Don't worry - you weren't alone last night. I was right there with you, bro!
rem
my wife has just left for the memorial.. just before she went she asked me to come...this was the second year in a row that i declined.
i hated seeing her so sad, i almost agreed to go just to cheer her up but that would betray her in a very real sense.
to go to the memorial would be an admission in her eyes (and other jws) that i still believe deep down that it is the truth.
Hi All,
My wife and I went last night and boy did we get love bombed! It was amazing - hugs from all of the elders, everyone coming up to me like I was a visiting bethel speaker or something. I was just laughing inside. I don't know if I was just paranoid, but it seemed like the speaker was looking right at me for much of the talk - especially the part where he invited the audience to go to meetings regularly and not just on special occasions such as this.
We had been getting calls all week from the brothers making sure we knew the time and place. Yesterday morning an elder and his wife came over to encourage me to come. It seems like they weren't counting on me being there because when I said, "Oh yeah, we're definitely going to be there tonight" they had this priceless look of surprise and relief on their faces.
I can't believe how I sat through 25 of those "celebrations" in the past. It is so ridiculous. The first words from one of the elder's mouth when he came to love-bomb, er, greet me afterward was, "It's great - we had 256 in attendance!". I wish that I didn't contribute to that number. Maybe next year there will be at least two less. It was so stupid how they over emphasize that no one is supposed to partake. The celebration is useless - why pass emblems that won't be used? It's such a stupid ritual - they're as bad as the Catholic Church.
Anyway, we went out afterward with some of our old friends. Everyone seemed so happy to see us. I know some truly miss us and we do miss them, but it's just not a healthy environment for us anymore. I told one of my elder buddies that we just came to keep from causing controversy this year. I told him that he would probably not see us at meetings anymore, and will probably only see us at assemblies since I have so many Witness workmates that I deal with on a daily basis. Someday we'll make a complete break, though.
It's so good to have friends on the outside who understand how much pressure is put on inactive ones to attend. Part of me doesn't mind going to the memorial - it's like a person going to Christmas Mass once a year to please his Catholic believing grandmother. But in a way it is much different because the JW religion is not a normal religion. It is a very controlling religion - pretty much a cult. For the Catholic grandma, she basically knows that her grandson is going just to make her happy. For the JW grandma, she believes that her grandson might someday come back to her religion. It stirs up false hopes and it starts the whole love-bomb process where you start getting invited to meetings and service, etc.
Maybe next year will be different.
rem
a great deal of believers seems to suffer the delusion that atheism is some kind of religion.
on the theist agenda seem to be a claim that atheism isnt anymore scientific than theism.
and that theism doesnt promote a state of stupidity in theists.. atheism, which basically is absence of faith in god, in itself, might not be particularly scientific.
Patio,
I think it's more like 100% of all scientists accept that evolution happened - they just might not all agree on the mechanisms of it. The majority (almost all) accept Darwinian Natural Selection. Some have other theories, but they all recognize that evolution is a fact. I'm not sure how someone who does not accept the fact of evolution could be called a serious scientist.
rem
i'm starting this thread because dedalus made such a good point in his post in the "what.
" thread.
i won't quote his whole post here, but here's the link:.
Yep, this is just all too familiar.
Every year my wife and I go skiing with a bunch of witness friends from all over the country. It seems like these people can't have a good time if the alcohol is not flowing freely. I'm not one to drink much, and just a little goes a long way for me, but there is just so much pressure to drink with that group (it almost makes me uncomfortable) that we all end up getting drunk, running around the cabin practically tearing the place down. Just when I think we learned our lesson the year before, the pattern starts up again. If I were never a witness I would never suspect us of being Christians in our drunken stupor.
Of course, as a proud apostate, I don't feel guilty (nor do I think that our friends feel guilty for their behavior either), but I do see through the hypocrisy of this religion. The thing is that I know that their behavior at these trips is not just isolated incidents - this happens all year long at various functions.
On the other hand, I just went to a "worldly party" with some friends at work. My wife and I couldn't believe how well behaved everyone was - even though there was alcohol freely available. Not one drunk person! No belligerent behavior. That kinda opened our eyes to the myth that is the "True Christian Witness Behavior".
rem
