Posts by rem

31

Subtle Propaganda at DC -but Noticeable To Us

by Had Enough in

jw
friends

as ive mentioned in other posts, i felt obligated to go to the dc (in hamilton) this weekend to help my family with my aging mom, who in my opinion just goes for the social outing because she is physically not able to stay awake for more that 1/5 th of the whole sessions except intermissions.. i know others have posted their observations of the dc they attended but id like to make an addition from things that just jumped right out at me and made me go argggghhhhh!.

and btw....i felt some of the comments made seemed to be as though they were answering their justification of some of the things being brought out on the internet, including here.. on friday, even in talks that were not about higher education, they managed to slip in their subtle propaganda, as in:.

- bob alton, said peter and john were outspoken about gods word and were unlettered and ordinary men they didnt need higher education to speak wondrous things of god.

rem

Had Enough,

It was difficult for me to hold back glad-bags of vomit during the not-so-subtle propaganda piece known as the eagerly awaited drama. It was so obvious that the Society was equating Moses with the FDS and Korah with evil, disgusting apostates motivated only by pride. The message was so thick - in fact the whole morning message was so thick with propaganda that one of my best Witness friends even complained that they were coming down way too hard and that the parts were unusually harsh.

The lesson was this: Don't question God's appointed servants (FDS). The only possible motive anyone (apostates) could have to question God's appointed servants is Pride.

I guess the hallmark of good propaganda is the fact that indoctrinated listeners don't recognize it as such. Only a few years ago I would have sucked this crap up as coming from God's appointed slave without question. It's amazing what a little perspective and education will do.

rem

108

What drives exJWs to atheism?

by ros in

jw
friends

a significant number of former jehovah's witnesses come out of the watchtower still believing the bible and considering themselves christians.

most coming out are in a serious state of bewilderment, and they look intently and sincerely for something to fill the huge void of lost religion, lost family and friends, and lost fellowship.

they seek some viable spiritual association with others of like mind while at the same time having become very wary of any organized religion.. what is it that eventually draws so many of us (not me) to agnosticism or atheism?

rem

Scorpion,

There is no need to disprove god's existence to logically conclude he/it does not exist. Just as there is no need to disprove Santa Claus' existence to logically conclude he does not exist. The burden is on the one asserting god's existence to prove his existence before a rational person will accept that existence. The fact that God's existence has not been proven in the last few thousand years of recorded history is evidence enough of god's non-existence.

The default position is disbelief - otherwise you would have to believe that there is an Invisible Pink Unicorn in my head just because I said so. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

rem

108

What drives exJWs to atheism?

by ros in

jw
friends

a significant number of former jehovah's witnesses come out of the watchtower still believing the bible and considering themselves christians.

most coming out are in a serious state of bewilderment, and they look intently and sincerely for something to fill the huge void of lost religion, lost family and friends, and lost fellowship.

they seek some viable spiritual association with others of like mind while at the same time having become very wary of any organized religion.. what is it that eventually draws so many of us (not me) to agnosticism or atheism?

rem

"What drives exJWs to atheism?"

How about "What drives some JW's to become Apostates?" - the answer is logic. This logic, when further applied to all religions - including Christianity, show them to be based on flimsy evidence and indefensible doctrine - just like the JW's. Atheists/Agnostics value logic and reasoning over emotion and credulity.

rem

10

GREETINGS

by josephus in

jw
friends

its been a long time, but i am back for more chat.. hi to all who remember me from the old h20 (except youknow) is he here ?.

im am still a nonattender.

yeeeeh.. the evil elder who tried to remove me and my brother got removed himself !.

rem

Good to hear from ya Josephus! Hope things are going well for you. Welcome to the board!

rem

272

McVeigh vs Death Penalty

by Amazing in

jw
friends

i am a policitcal conservative, at least a fiscal conservative and sociel moderate.

i support the death penalty, but i agree that our judicial system needs to overhaul how wwe treat criminals to achieve better rehabilitation results.

and of course, withhold the death penalty in cases where there could be doubt.. in mcveigh's case, i believe that he deserves the death penalty.

rem

So am I off base? Is the only real civilized solution to remove criminals from society, but not hamper their inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? This obviously cannot be done within the walls of a prison, can it? Are we still a barbaric society until we set aside a place to banish such ones where they are free to make up their own way of life? A land where they have their own society and government, and yet they are not allowed back into mainstream society until their sentence is up or for life?

I may be arguing a slippery slope here, but I am curious as to what human rights really are and how we can decide to deprive criminals of certain ones and still claim to be a civilized society. I'm basing this off of the fact that some opponents of the death penalty have stated that taking the life of a mass murderer is barbaric. Doesn't the line just move back a step, and then we are still barbaric for infringing upon a hardened criminal's right to the pursuit of happiness, and then again to his right to liberty?

Are there any situations in which a person rightly forfeits some or all of his human rights because of his blatant disregard for the human rights of others? Obviously opponents of the death penalty are not moving towards abolishing prisons, so does that mean that liberty is not really a human right, or is it okay to take certain human rights away, but not others?

Does anyone else have a different opinion of what human rights really are? Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness are all I've heard so far. Are there others. Do some on this list not belong?

I have more questions than answers. :)

rem

22

When things started to "fall off"

by comment in

jw
friends

i was thinking about this in several areas today.. 1) district conventions and house-to-house work.

if you were a witness for a long time, you probably remember a time when going to the conventions seemed perfectly "normal" to you: it was absolutely "the thing" to sit in a sports arena all day listening to bible talks and counsel from men in suits.. but at some point, did you ever start to feel like you were participating in a cultural relic, so to speak?.

as in, "here it is, the 1990's, and the society is still using fundamentally the same old format they've been using all century long.

rem

Comment,

Your experience about being pressured into auxilliary pioneering in April is exactly what happened to me. I never believed in aux pioneering, but it was the thing to do one April a couple years ago - all of the MS's and Elders were doing it. I hated it. Never did it before and never did it again. The next April they tried it again, I just avoided everyone. LOL

rem

272

McVeigh vs Death Penalty

by Amazing in

jw
friends

i am a policitcal conservative, at least a fiscal conservative and sociel moderate.

i support the death penalty, but i agree that our judicial system needs to overhaul how wwe treat criminals to achieve better rehabilitation results.

and of course, withhold the death penalty in cases where there could be doubt.. in mcveigh's case, i believe that he deserves the death penalty.

rem

These are rights that cannot be denied or segregated from each individual human. They are primarily 'life', 'liberty,' and 'pursuit of happiness.'

That is exactly my point, Amazing. I'm having trouble understanding why it is acceptable to deny a criminal the right to "liberty" by putting him in prison, but not to deny the right to "life". To me it seems that if one says that denying the right to life is "barbaric", it is just as barbaric to deny the right to "liberty". So are we really any better than savages if we get rid of the death penalty, but keep prisons? This is the only point in which I can see the opponents of the death penalty talking from both sides of their mouth. Are certain human rights more valuable than others? If they are all inalienable, then how can we pick and choose which ones the government can take and which ones it can not?

What is the solution? I don't know, but this discussion has helped me see both sides of the issue much better. My hunch is that giving the state the power to execute is a bad idea, but I also see cases in which death seems justifiable.

rem

272

McVeigh vs Death Penalty

by Amazing in

jw
friends

i am a policitcal conservative, at least a fiscal conservative and sociel moderate.

i support the death penalty, but i agree that our judicial system needs to overhaul how wwe treat criminals to achieve better rehabilitation results.

and of course, withhold the death penalty in cases where there could be doubt.. in mcveigh's case, i believe that he deserves the death penalty.

rem

This might sound like a dumb question, but...

What are inalienable human rights? Right to life seems to be one of them. Are there others? Is a right to freedom one of them? If it is (and I'm not sure if it is or not), then why is it acceptable to allow the government to take a criminal's right to freedom away, but not his right to life? Is there only one sacred right - that is life?

I'm really curious. I'm on the fence on this one. I've given it a lot of thought and it is scary to me to put that much power in the hands of the government, as far as taking life. But part of me asks what rights do we really have as humans, and are there situations in which we forfeit those rights, maybe including right to life? We usually have no problem taking the life of an animal if it kills a human - do animals not have a right to life, but humans do? Maybe I'm going way off base here, but I think there are some interesting avenues to discuss.

rem

17

The poem INVICTUS - what a piece of crap!

by Tallyman in

jw
friends

* http://www.intrex.net/tallyman/invictus.html

rem

Cygnus,

You had a C64 too?!! I've still got mine up in the closet. I don't think I'll ever get rid of it for sentimental reasons. Never had a modem for it, though - couldn't afford it LOL. I had the datasette tape recorder and the huge, loud floppy drive and tons of games and BASIC programs, though. Reminiscing.... those were the days....

rem

49

Help! Help! My son wants to tell elders about me

by LostMyReligion in

jw
friends

i am floundering!.

today my jw son told me that he had seen an email in our family account written to me from an exjw.

it contained very little, but enough to let him know that i was in contact with outsiders about my doubts and feelings.

rem

I totally agree with Path. This is a non-issue. Call your son's bluff - let him go to the elders. What are they going to do? They might have a talk with you after the meeting - real informal, but there is not going to be any judicial meeting over this. Just blow it off.

One thing - make sure he doesn't have a copy. This exact thing happened to me when my dad intercepted a private letter to my mom that stated all of my misgivings about the org. Unfortunately my dad passed the letter to the elders and a meeting with the elders was arranged, but it wasn't a judicial meeting and I just let them know that it was true that I had doubts. They left me alone - i just had to step down as an MS (which is what i wanted).

The only thing you don't want to do is say anything to the affect that you don't believe the GB is the Faithful and Discreet Slave. They asked my mom this and she just said, "I don't know" and they left her alone. It's really not as bad as it seems.

I really think this is a non issue. The only way this could get escalated is if your son has a copy of the letter. Even if he does there is a chance he is bluffing. And then even if he does pass it to the elders or talk to them, it won't be a very big deal at all. In fact, the elders are probably so busy that it will be easy to avoid them for a long time until the whole situation blows over.

rem