Posts by caves

27

Need help - How do you determine whether to show a JW the truth or not?

by AlainAlam in

jw
friends

how do you determine whether to show a jw the truth or not?.

now some of you still believe in the bible.

to you the answer would be obvious - we preach to anyone as much as possible.

caves

Case by case basis. That's really it. You can metaphorically beat your head against a brick wall all you want in trying to " determine whether to show a jw the truth" as you put it, all day long. In the end, it is up to you to decide how, if or when. The other person 'the jw' in the case of this post, has to see for themselves. Or has to question things. But you said

I'm trying to express the conflict inside... Can anyone relate? -So, back to the subject.

This ^ .

That is the subject!

You are conflicted! She is not! That would largely explain the way you have been posting.

Relate? No.

I can relate to hoping they wake up, but that's not what you said. I personally would never outright try.

You said- I'm talking about someone I'm in contact with but who doesn't have questions. You also said-
I want them to see there is such a thing as a happy, friendly apostate.

You have answered your own question.

You said- I'm no longer religious about this "clinging to what is right" thing though, although I still care about authenticity.

Then just be authentic.

Your reaching for things that have no answer. If you pay attention to your thoughts as you are writing them here, you are answering your own questions.

Their is more at play in your mind than you are acknowledging or saying.

53

My ExElder Best Friend Has Coronavirus

by minimus in

jw
friends

this has been a horrible month.

my best friend’s wife just called to tell me that my friend had to be hospitalized due to severe coronavirus complications.

he has severe pneumonia, is put on a ventilator and is in a coma .

caves

That is heart breaking news Minimus. And extra awful that they have been isolating and still got it. I'm so sorry. Words escape me

84

Do you have any evidence that the GB had bad intent?

by AlainAlam in

do you have any evidence that the gb had bad intent?

as opposed to blind faith/cognitive dissonance and honest mistakes.. i'm inclined to think they have the best of intentions and are just wrong (primarily because the bible is wrong), but i'm willing to consider the evidence otherwise..

caves

AA said- I could only conceive of their errors being either "honest mistakes" or "done with evil intent". I couldn't see evil intent, so I figured they were honest mistakes. Here's what I learned: There's a "middle ground" between these two extremes. I'll paraphrase him/her because I have no better way of putting it: "most of the damage done by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is due to the unintended consequences of their actions, rather than the intention to do damage to people. The real problem is their callous, pharisaical attitude caused by indoctrination". That's a real eye opener. Thought I'd share it here

Fink said-I think what AlainA is trying to assert on this thread is that the GB men or past presidents of the WTS were just misinformed good willed and well intended people.

Then AA-said-"I think what AlainA is trying to assert on this thread is that the GB men or past presidents of the WTS were just misinformed good willed and well intended people."
No, I'm not trying to assert that. I'm wondering about it.

Does anyone else see a major discrepancy with this post? I have yet to figure out why the back and forth with AA on this when it seems like a damned if you do, damned if you don't, type of response.

It may not 'intended' that way but it sure reaks of troll to me.

45

What do you think of the ransom as proof of Jehovah's love?

by AlainAlam in

consider these excerpts from the bible and the publications:.

“no one has love greater than this, that someone should surrender his life in behalf of his friends” (joh 15:13).

“for hardly would anyone die for a righteous man; though perhaps for a good man someone may dare to die.

caves

This question is worded awkwardly. Its like when I try to answer I'm almost forced to have to use the jw version of things to answer. Almost.

So I'll say this. Jesus, if according to jws teachings and to be fair other religions, actually lived and was a ransom as proof of jehovahs love would prove to me that they were both wussy's. Jesus lasted to 33 1/2 years old? Please! Let him actually live long enough to start to age on into his 60s and beyond and I wonder how resilient he would have been. I guess we will never know.

And personally I would never ask my son, my only son at that, to die to prove ANYTHING that were due to my own stupid screw ups. Aka, I mean after a 1000 or so years, that's like 12 or so generations living to 80, I would have simply made satan disappear as the point would have no doubt been proven, by even the most idiotic of thinking.

Also, off topic, yet overlapping. What about when during the 1000 yr reign people grow to perfection (that whole sentence made me want to gag). Then satan is let loose and those that follow him would be in the numbers as 'the grains of sand'. Who's going to be the ransom for those new 'sins' then? Is each individual going to be their own private 'ransom' that is rejected? Idiocy.

All that work to make the earth a paradise only to have the same crap play out? Again? !

Its just one big loop of bloody carnage. I cannot oblige.

21

What Is Your Favorite Decade or Time Period to Live In?

by minimus in

jw
friends

some people say this decade is the most advantage and so they are happiest in the present.

some long for the good old days before cell phones and computers.

if you could live in an era or decade , when would it be?.

caves

I have several. I suppose the 90's decade for me before tech took over everywhere. But just enough tech to make it exciting. I was in my late teens and early twenties, when I was still naive and innocent enough to make sweeping excuses/generalizations for many things. Music was still good across the board mostly, except perhaps country music that really started to morph into something I would not personally call country. Yet there were still a few good country artist left. Lots of interesting music sprung up in that decade.

If I were to pick a time period, I would probably say the late 1800s. Steam engine Locomotives were still going strong and that would have been exciting. Horse and buggy was still a main mode of transportation for the masses.I love horses and I love wagons and carriages. Cars were starting to be invented and I imagine that would have been exciting. Also the life style of living off the land was normal and no one would have looked at me any different if I said I had a cabin in the mountains. Since there were not radios there would be a lot of quite times to listen to nature. Also I can imagine the thrill of going to see a live Concerto and those sounds blissfully playing in my ears days and days after. Clothing and tools would be made of stronger quality. Also the satisfaction of using hand tools, making your own home. Growing your own garden, having chickens,ect without someone thinking a thing of it. It would have be the norm. Books would have been amazing to read. Things like the writings of Jules Verne would have been simply mind blowing.

Also I'd probably be pretty okay with living as an indigenous person in the Andes mountains, now or hundreds of years ago. Half naked with some bamboo wrapped around... umm , urrr the lower regions of the body.

I would love to be able to see first hand how it was to live 5000 years ago, knowing me I could see myself as a stoic of sorts that was forced to drink poison like Socrates. lol.

There are still places on this planet that are generations behind, so if I should live long enough perhaps I will be able to put myself in one of those places. Like 'rural' Romania, Mongolia, Argentina, Switzerland, Chili, and more.

Thanks Minimus for posting this question. It took my mind to fun places.

28

is this real? Wife got an email from here group elder about daily check in's

by goingthruthemotions in

so this elder is super brainwashed, as is his wife.

she actually made a comment that she wished antmo 3 was her dad and that he is so cool.

oh my god, i threw up in my mouth.

caves

the girl next door-They're trying to flatten their own curve with a daily nagging reminder.

Bam!!! This^

10

What do JW's believe about the Anti Christ? Been out for 20 years, don't remember lol...

by bobfish in

i was watching a video saying with tongue in cheek saying that trump was the antichrist listing all the scriptures and prophecies... was kind of funny but it made me wonder what the heck do jw's believe?

was it that it's other religions or some such garbage?

i don't seem to recall it being a specific person but honestly i don't recall at all.

caves

I remember when I was little (the 80's) and the Antichrist seemed to be every newly elected president. Even on up until now. My, how they twist themselves into a pretzel.

Ask them about it after that persons term in office is over and its like one of their eyes start twitching and then its suddenly a taboo topic that shouldn't be discussed despite the fact they themselves were circulating the gossip to begin with.

84

Do you have any evidence that the GB had bad intent?

by AlainAlam in

do you have any evidence that the gb had bad intent?

as opposed to blind faith/cognitive dissonance and honest mistakes.. i'm inclined to think they have the best of intentions and are just wrong (primarily because the bible is wrong), but i'm willing to consider the evidence otherwise..

caves

AlainA- I could only conceive of their errors being either "honest mistakes" or "done with evil intent". I couldn't see evil intent, so I figured they were honest mistakes.

"Honest mistakes" usually get corrected after by the person or entity doing them, especially if said "mistakes" harm others and its something that keeps happening. In the case of the GB I'm sure we have all lost count! Child molestation cover ups repeatedly as one of many examples.

"Done with evil intent" would be a failure to rectify any "honest mistakes" that have caused and continue to cause harm. At some point one can only conclude that, A. They are completely retarded in every literal sense of the word. B. The cover up of their many lies both to the governments/authorities and the very members of their 'religion' are to cover the massive inadequacies of the ever changing doctrinal beliefs over time and to save themselves as an organization or rather "as gods mouth piece", as they advance it. I'd call that evil intent!

I'd also call your posts the last 24 hours highly baited. The reason is to many questions to which you are searching for someone to echo what you think and flat out tell people you will ignore their logic until it coincides with points you are asserting. Or lack thereof.

That is how its coming across. IMO.

But, I'm always open to correcting my perception. So long you recognize I am entitled to mine. As you are to yours.

656

Covid-19 (Coronavirus) - Status Update Thread

by Simon in

jw
friends

this topic is to focus on status updates & advice (no opinion or politics please).. status.

latest status is that it's serious, probably isn't going to be contained and most large companies are making contingency plans, cancelling large events etc... which i don't think would happen if it was just people being alarmist.

the incubation period means it may have already spread further and infected many more people than are currently known, so expect jumps in the numbers over the coming days and weeks.. tracking.

caves

I just wanted to say that unfortunately for my brain before I had a massive panic attack. I had gone to each state (online) and as many counties as I could to look at their local news. Many counties are not even being counted in the number of positive COVID-19 cases and deaths. The numbers are far higher than they are saying. Many of those states are locally posting headlines pleading to be counted to get a more accurate number. This doesn't surprise me, but it sure broke my heart.

As I tried to do the math it became glaringly obvious that the numbers of cases and deaths are no where close to whats being reported. I got through about 11 -12 states and easily hit the numbers that they are saying for the entire US.

We have a long way to go.

38

Have You Isolated Yourself Because of the Virus 🦠?

by minimus in

jw
friends

some people i know have not gone out of their houses in weeks.

some will walk near their homes and run right back in.

meanwhile, i go food shopping and i see tons of people, many with masks and gloves on..

caves

Minnimus-Caves, please don’t give up hope

I'm a little better, I think.

I'm sorry everyone. I was at the beginning of a bad panic attack that lasted all night and half of today. I have been watching to many news outlets from all over the states and the globe, then searching for a spot in the mountains if it comes to that and sent me over the edge. I just have to back off for a bit.

Again sorry for not catching the signals sooner. I only realized I was in the beginning throws of a panic attack right after I posted. How embarrassing. So sorry. Stay safe everyone.