Posts by caves

10

STIR CRAZY please help me covid-19 with religious family

by Wagurl in

hi need some help with the teachings regarding the 4type horsemen and the virus.

i'm 17 going to be 18 in six months.

i am a running start student and trying to find the best way to move out after i graduate next year to continue.

caves

This is narcissistic future faking.

That might be a good topic for you to research as well. Clinical Narcissism.

Since your confined in close quarters and if your worried about anyone seeing what your researching,.. that topic probably wouldn't raise any red flags for them. A clinical narcissist hardly ever knows they are. But I think it will help you see it from a perspective that could assist you in the long run.(Thinking long term, also may help) Many ex jws fall victim to narcissist once out. It could help you build a foundation of logic in regards mind control. Both religious and secular. 'Codependency No More' by Melody Beattie, Is a good read too and could dovetail nicely into your research.

I was sucked back in several times. 2 decades wasted. Learning about clinical narcissist and their tactics really helped. Along with research into the jws.

I would research both because what you describe is a rather normal feeling given your situation.

Narcissist has become a rather over used buzzword in the last decade so I would personally read about it on psychology articles and not a sensationalistic blog or something trying to gain followers. ( Not that those people are wrong, it just sometimes to simplistic yet over the top.)

I do understand where you are coming from. Those feelings are normal. There is nothing wrong with you having them. at. all. In time, it should get much better. Go easy on yourself.

30

A chance for the unrighteous?

by AlainAlam in

the witnesses teach that the "unrighteous" are brought back to life in order to learn about god during the 1000-year reign.

i don't think that's a bible teaching, for the following reason:.

1) no verse says that.

caves

I don't believe the "relatively-righteous" thing either. I don't believe in the Bible anymore. I'm just trying to see where the Witnesses went wrong, doctrinally.

Oh, dear [AA double bind]. If you don't believe in the bible then the last part of that sentence is moot.

27

Need help - How do you determine whether to show a JW the truth or not?

by AlainAlam in

jw
friends

how do you determine whether to show a jw the truth or not?.

now some of you still believe in the bible.

to you the answer would be obvious - we preach to anyone as much as possible.

caves

Snare, that was an awesome answer! How true.

38

Evidence of WT bad intent - How they handled changing the meaning of "porneia"

by AlainAlam in

sorry, long post :) i'm considering evidence that at least at some point, the gb/watchtower had bad intentions.

i would like to share the following: *** w74 11/15 p. 703 questions from readers ***do lewd practices on the part of a married person toward that one’s own mate constitute a scriptural basis for the offended mate to get a divorce?there are times when lewd practices within the marriage arrangement would provide a basis for a scriptural divorce.. based on this, some jw chose to divorce.

but then:*** w83 3/15 p. 30 honor godly marriage!

caves

There's no way I can view this as any other thing than unrepentance/bad intent.

Much like your posts. jk

You ask things, then turn around and try to school people with the information they give you.

I think I shall call you [AA Double Bind].

38

Evidence of WT bad intent - How they handled changing the meaning of "porneia"

by AlainAlam in

sorry, long post :) i'm considering evidence that at least at some point, the gb/watchtower had bad intentions.

i would like to share the following: *** w74 11/15 p. 703 questions from readers ***do lewd practices on the part of a married person toward that one’s own mate constitute a scriptural basis for the offended mate to get a divorce?there are times when lewd practices within the marriage arrangement would provide a basis for a scriptural divorce.. based on this, some jw chose to divorce.

but then:*** w83 3/15 p. 30 honor godly marriage!

caves

I'm still trying to figure out what your fucking major malfunction is.

27

Need help - How do you determine whether to show a JW the truth or not?

by AlainAlam in

jw
friends

how do you determine whether to show a jw the truth or not?.

now some of you still believe in the bible.

to you the answer would be obvious - we preach to anyone as much as possible.

caves

Case by case basis. That's really it. You can metaphorically beat your head against a brick wall all you want in trying to " determine whether to show a jw the truth" as you put it, all day long. In the end, it is up to you to decide how, if or when. The other person 'the jw' in the case of this post, has to see for themselves. Or has to question things. But you said

I'm trying to express the conflict inside... Can anyone relate? -So, back to the subject.

This ^ .

That is the subject!

You are conflicted! She is not! That would largely explain the way you have been posting.

Relate? No.

I can relate to hoping they wake up, but that's not what you said. I personally would never outright try.

You said- I'm talking about someone I'm in contact with but who doesn't have questions. You also said-
I want them to see there is such a thing as a happy, friendly apostate.

You have answered your own question.

You said- I'm no longer religious about this "clinging to what is right" thing though, although I still care about authenticity.

Then just be authentic.

Your reaching for things that have no answer. If you pay attention to your thoughts as you are writing them here, you are answering your own questions.

Their is more at play in your mind than you are acknowledging or saying.

53

My ExElder Best Friend Has Coronavirus

by minimus in

jw
friends

this has been a horrible month.

my best friend’s wife just called to tell me that my friend had to be hospitalized due to severe coronavirus complications.

he has severe pneumonia, is put on a ventilator and is in a coma .

caves

That is heart breaking news Minimus. And extra awful that they have been isolating and still got it. I'm so sorry. Words escape me

84

Do you have any evidence that the GB had bad intent?

by AlainAlam in

do you have any evidence that the gb had bad intent?

as opposed to blind faith/cognitive dissonance and honest mistakes.. i'm inclined to think they have the best of intentions and are just wrong (primarily because the bible is wrong), but i'm willing to consider the evidence otherwise..

caves

AA said- I could only conceive of their errors being either "honest mistakes" or "done with evil intent". I couldn't see evil intent, so I figured they were honest mistakes. Here's what I learned: There's a "middle ground" between these two extremes. I'll paraphrase him/her because I have no better way of putting it: "most of the damage done by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is due to the unintended consequences of their actions, rather than the intention to do damage to people. The real problem is their callous, pharisaical attitude caused by indoctrination". That's a real eye opener. Thought I'd share it here

Fink said-I think what AlainA is trying to assert on this thread is that the GB men or past presidents of the WTS were just misinformed good willed and well intended people.

Then AA-said-"I think what AlainA is trying to assert on this thread is that the GB men or past presidents of the WTS were just misinformed good willed and well intended people."
No, I'm not trying to assert that. I'm wondering about it.

Does anyone else see a major discrepancy with this post? I have yet to figure out why the back and forth with AA on this when it seems like a damned if you do, damned if you don't, type of response.

It may not 'intended' that way but it sure reaks of troll to me.

45

What do you think of the ransom as proof of Jehovah's love?

by AlainAlam in

consider these excerpts from the bible and the publications:.

“no one has love greater than this, that someone should surrender his life in behalf of his friends” (joh 15:13).

“for hardly would anyone die for a righteous man; though perhaps for a good man someone may dare to die.

caves

This question is worded awkwardly. Its like when I try to answer I'm almost forced to have to use the jw version of things to answer. Almost.

So I'll say this. Jesus, if according to jws teachings and to be fair other religions, actually lived and was a ransom as proof of jehovahs love would prove to me that they were both wussy's. Jesus lasted to 33 1/2 years old? Please! Let him actually live long enough to start to age on into his 60s and beyond and I wonder how resilient he would have been. I guess we will never know.

And personally I would never ask my son, my only son at that, to die to prove ANYTHING that were due to my own stupid screw ups. Aka, I mean after a 1000 or so years, that's like 12 or so generations living to 80, I would have simply made satan disappear as the point would have no doubt been proven, by even the most idiotic of thinking.

Also, off topic, yet overlapping. What about when during the 1000 yr reign people grow to perfection (that whole sentence made me want to gag). Then satan is let loose and those that follow him would be in the numbers as 'the grains of sand'. Who's going to be the ransom for those new 'sins' then? Is each individual going to be their own private 'ransom' that is rejected? Idiocy.

All that work to make the earth a paradise only to have the same crap play out? Again? !

Its just one big loop of bloody carnage. I cannot oblige.

21

What Is Your Favorite Decade or Time Period to Live In?

by minimus in

jw
friends

some people say this decade is the most advantage and so they are happiest in the present.

some long for the good old days before cell phones and computers.

if you could live in an era or decade , when would it be?.

caves

I have several. I suppose the 90's decade for me before tech took over everywhere. But just enough tech to make it exciting. I was in my late teens and early twenties, when I was still naive and innocent enough to make sweeping excuses/generalizations for many things. Music was still good across the board mostly, except perhaps country music that really started to morph into something I would not personally call country. Yet there were still a few good country artist left. Lots of interesting music sprung up in that decade.

If I were to pick a time period, I would probably say the late 1800s. Steam engine Locomotives were still going strong and that would have been exciting. Horse and buggy was still a main mode of transportation for the masses.I love horses and I love wagons and carriages. Cars were starting to be invented and I imagine that would have been exciting. Also the life style of living off the land was normal and no one would have looked at me any different if I said I had a cabin in the mountains. Since there were not radios there would be a lot of quite times to listen to nature. Also I can imagine the thrill of going to see a live Concerto and those sounds blissfully playing in my ears days and days after. Clothing and tools would be made of stronger quality. Also the satisfaction of using hand tools, making your own home. Growing your own garden, having chickens,ect without someone thinking a thing of it. It would have be the norm. Books would have been amazing to read. Things like the writings of Jules Verne would have been simply mind blowing.

Also I'd probably be pretty okay with living as an indigenous person in the Andes mountains, now or hundreds of years ago. Half naked with some bamboo wrapped around... umm , urrr the lower regions of the body.

I would love to be able to see first hand how it was to live 5000 years ago, knowing me I could see myself as a stoic of sorts that was forced to drink poison like Socrates. lol.

There are still places on this planet that are generations behind, so if I should live long enough perhaps I will be able to put myself in one of those places. Like 'rural' Romania, Mongolia, Argentina, Switzerland, Chili, and more.

Thanks Minimus for posting this question. It took my mind to fun places.