I know you were joking Brumm, at least I was hoping you were, haha
RevMalk
JoinedPosts by RevMalk
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112
Thinking about Bill Bowen...
by Pathofthorns ini was looking over the thread... "should i support bill bowen?".
i realize i am one of the few people that gave bill somewhat of a difficult time pretty much from the beginning when it was not "fashionable" to do so.
it was never my hope to see the man reduced to what he has, but rather to gain a better understanding of the issues involved, the intents and goals of silentlambs and to see reasonableness govern everyone's actions in the whole affair.. imo, i don't think there is any other single person in the last while that has done so much to help address the issue of child abuse among jw's while at the same time exposing them for what they really are.
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70
Lust For Glory Alienating The Majority?
by Englishman inif i had ever been a victim of abuse, and the offence had been perpetrated by a member of the jw religion, then silent lambs would be the best thing ever to appear, both on tv and in person.. if i had a close friend or relative who had gone through the same trauma, then i would feel almost the same emotion.. now i do not know, obviously, what percentage of persons on this site have been victims of abuse by jw's, but my guess is that this percentage is relatively small.
so whilst most of us feel very empathetic to abuse victims, not that great a proportion of us have experienced it personally.. however, i do know that many of us have suffered trauma because of other forms of abuse by this organisation, including disfellowshipping which has caused many to be rejected by their loved ones.
whilst it is not possible to measure this form of abuse against that of child abuse, it is nonetheless a type of abuse that most of us are familiar with on a personal level, it's also a type of abuse that is still going on for many who post here.
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RevMalk
Does that make Bill disqualified for his job? I don't think so. Does that make the Silent Lambs look bad? Possible. But remember that Peter denied Jesus 3 times in public, and that didn't make him less qualified for his job.
Sunshine.....that's a hell of a point....makes perfect sense to me.
I can understand Bill's frustration as well, if that's the cause/case....and I too wish that this all went down differently. There is something to be said about someone who 'could' do so much to help out, yet refuses to.....Interesting pint.....it's sort of like if I were drowning, and someone refused to take a minute to pull me out of the water. Refusal to do so would mean they WANTED me to drown, or at the very least didn't give a crap.
Bottom line is, the issue should be dead. The guy doesn't want to help, so be it, it's just not his bag to save innocent children, what can we do?
I say just forget about it and move on, there's much to do, and so little time to do it. And Englishman. I understand your point about the 'minority', but I thought the beauty of humanity was our 'humane side that we all have the capability to possess. I guess you've pointed out that there are very few running around here that do not carry a selfish attitude toward their fellow man, and that saddens me. But again, what can we do?
It seems to me, well at least on my part, that the extending a helping hand has helped me heal from ALL the abuses I've endured from the Watchtower Society. And even though not everyone has endured this faze of the abuse, we should realize that some have endured what we have and MORE. that's where our 'humane' side is supposed to come out, but it doesn't for everyone.
Another point is, we should also realize that not only are the 'minority' ex-jw abuse victims harmed here, but so are potentially thousands of non-jws, and their children. Remember, these people are knocking on YOUR door and millions of others.
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70
Lust For Glory Alienating The Majority?
by Englishman inif i had ever been a victim of abuse, and the offence had been perpetrated by a member of the jw religion, then silent lambs would be the best thing ever to appear, both on tv and in person.. if i had a close friend or relative who had gone through the same trauma, then i would feel almost the same emotion.. now i do not know, obviously, what percentage of persons on this site have been victims of abuse by jw's, but my guess is that this percentage is relatively small.
so whilst most of us feel very empathetic to abuse victims, not that great a proportion of us have experienced it personally.. however, i do know that many of us have suffered trauma because of other forms of abuse by this organisation, including disfellowshipping which has caused many to be rejected by their loved ones.
whilst it is not possible to measure this form of abuse against that of child abuse, it is nonetheless a type of abuse that most of us are familiar with on a personal level, it's also a type of abuse that is still going on for many who post here.
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RevMalk
Well, I don't know about all that Englishman, sure the guy has made mistakes, but who wouldn't? Who would be your suggestion for a replacement?
I think it'll pan out ok, just like you convinced me of a few weeks ago. With the implementation of the new silentlambs charters and such, Bill's position will fade a bit. It's a whole new Ballgame, and Bill himself realized that this is what's now needed. I think your original opinion of the situation was right on the ball, just as I thought it was when we were discussing it. You were right, it does take a guy like that, and you were also right that he is human, and that things WILL pan out in the end. And they are. It's just time for this whole topic to end, it's so stinking old it's just making us all look like fools.
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70
Lust For Glory Alienating The Majority?
by Englishman inif i had ever been a victim of abuse, and the offence had been perpetrated by a member of the jw religion, then silent lambs would be the best thing ever to appear, both on tv and in person.. if i had a close friend or relative who had gone through the same trauma, then i would feel almost the same emotion.. now i do not know, obviously, what percentage of persons on this site have been victims of abuse by jw's, but my guess is that this percentage is relatively small.
so whilst most of us feel very empathetic to abuse victims, not that great a proportion of us have experienced it personally.. however, i do know that many of us have suffered trauma because of other forms of abuse by this organisation, including disfellowshipping which has caused many to be rejected by their loved ones.
whilst it is not possible to measure this form of abuse against that of child abuse, it is nonetheless a type of abuse that most of us are familiar with on a personal level, it's also a type of abuse that is still going on for many who post here.
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RevMalk
I'm confused Englishman.
First you tell me you think SL will not fail, and BB is the kind of person it takes to make an organization like SL succeed, and now you're running around saying things like Bill needs to step down, etc etc etc.
But even still, I understand your point. The problem is, however, that to ignore the faults and possible wrongdoing of our so called 'saviour' because he helped us is both Hypocritical and wrong. I'm not saying that these men are evil, I'm merely saying that they should not be 'protected' because they did so many things right. You know what your momma told you, two wrongs don't make a right, and it goes both ways. I'm not saying we should track ol' Ray don't and march up to his door, but come on, we're all susceptible to criticism, and to deny the possible wrong of one or two men, and to say "The Watchtower is our enemy and our only enemy" is disgusting. That would mean that we're only out to get one organization, only because they ARE that organization. This is ridiculous. We should be out to 'get' anyone who has caused harm to these innocent people. Obviously our main concern should be those that are continually causing harm. But to point out that someone has done wrong in the past is not reason for this amount of crap. Is Bill Bowen innocent? Perhaps in this case, but not in all. He sat at the wrong end of a judicial hearing or two as well, and he shouldn't forget that when criticizing others. But the thing is, we were ALL on that end of the stick once. I just find the entire thing insane. One man's opinion causes these much grief? It's time to grow up for crying out loud, it's over, let a dead dog lie.
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112
Thinking about Bill Bowen...
by Pathofthorns ini was looking over the thread... "should i support bill bowen?".
i realize i am one of the few people that gave bill somewhat of a difficult time pretty much from the beginning when it was not "fashionable" to do so.
it was never my hope to see the man reduced to what he has, but rather to gain a better understanding of the issues involved, the intents and goals of silentlambs and to see reasonableness govern everyone's actions in the whole affair.. imo, i don't think there is any other single person in the last while that has done so much to help address the issue of child abuse among jw's while at the same time exposing them for what they really are.
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RevMalk
Can we end this yet? Simon,
I know you keep asking for this to end, and I keep agreeing, but it's very difficult to just stop when someone else makes a remark either attacking you personally, or a remark that just screams for a reply, haha. I'm trying really hard. I left for a few weeks hoping it would blow over, and I came back and it's still here. I think this is going to cause alot of people to leave for good. Maybe that's good, maybe it's bad, I don't know. But I really think that in order to end it once and for all is to go grab that big mallet in your closet and slam it down on this entire mess. Demand that it end. This is your site, your board, "Your can do it!". I know you're probably not wanting to do that because you are a man who appreciates free speech, but it's the only way man. Like we were saying on another recent thread, it's doing no-one any good, only harm, no matter what side of this ridiculous fence you happen to be on. Again I will say this, and I will try and practice what I preach, for Simon's sake, and per his request, we should all respect his wishes and talk about something else, maybe we can all prepare for the Watchtower study this Sunday.
That's my 2 cents.
John Ruskin, 19th-century British critic and author
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112
Thinking about Bill Bowen...
by Pathofthorns ini was looking over the thread... "should i support bill bowen?".
i realize i am one of the few people that gave bill somewhat of a difficult time pretty much from the beginning when it was not "fashionable" to do so.
it was never my hope to see the man reduced to what he has, but rather to gain a better understanding of the issues involved, the intents and goals of silentlambs and to see reasonableness govern everyone's actions in the whole affair.. imo, i don't think there is any other single person in the last while that has done so much to help address the issue of child abuse among jw's while at the same time exposing them for what they really are.
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RevMalk
....just because people like you, Grits, Undiss, RevMalk, cannot accept anything less than full compliance.
This is simply not true. I never once even made an inclination towards this ludicrous idea. I simply stated my opinion that enough was enough. You were on the other thread, you surely must have read my comment that I wish this never happened and that I wish Bill had never said what he said. I don't care that he has the opinion (or even facts), I just don't think it got him any popularity votes. Unfortunately, it's sad, but sometimes you have to play Pontius Pilate when you're in a position such as Bill's, and he'll learn that over time. Is it right that he has to go with the flow sometimes? Absolutely not, it's inherently wrong. But that's what happens. Now, do you think my opinion of all this is popular with Bill? Probably not. Does Bill give me crap over it? Absolutely not. Even though I've stated over and over again, even on the silentlambs forums that I do not just swallow everything he says, and that I do not agree 100% of the time with the man, I agree with the cause. It's noble, honorable, and pure. Does that sound like 100% compliance to the man? I don't think so. But it is 100% compliance to the cause, and to the abused (which obviously is the cause). I work side by side with Bill every day of my life, and we get along just fine, even though we may have differences of opinion. Obviously I don't hold any sort of position of authority, but I do work with the man.When I disagree with him, he listens, whether he takes the advice or not, he shows me respect (except when I want sleep, haha), and sometimes he even takes a bit of advice from me! This 100% compliance thing is unfounded and ridiculous, I know this for a fact. I certainly don't expect it from you either, and furthermore I'm not in a position to even request it. Again, your comments are frivolous, unfounded, biased and do not contain an ounce of fact. You, as most people on here grab at any little straw you can to throw in this direction, and all it does is make us all look insane. So, again, if people are going to give their opinions on these topics, please at least get your facts straight first, you'll only be doing harm to everyone involved otherwise.
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112
Thinking about Bill Bowen...
by Pathofthorns ini was looking over the thread... "should i support bill bowen?".
i realize i am one of the few people that gave bill somewhat of a difficult time pretty much from the beginning when it was not "fashionable" to do so.
it was never my hope to see the man reduced to what he has, but rather to gain a better understanding of the issues involved, the intents and goals of silentlambs and to see reasonableness govern everyone's actions in the whole affair.. imo, i don't think there is any other single person in the last while that has done so much to help address the issue of child abuse among jw's while at the same time exposing them for what they really are.
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RevMalk
Haha, DannyBear, I have nothing against you, but your comments seem way out in left field. I didn't get any of what you got from hawkaw's comments. He called him a 'nice man', and said he can't thank him enough, but that the counsel didn't do their job. Or did I mess something?
I don't see any games being played here. Are we on the same board? Does anyone else see games, or whatever Danny sees?
And what games is Grits playing?
Damn you Grits! How many times have I told you no balls in the house???
Brummie.....I know, I'm a nasty nasty man....I guess there's more than two witnesses here, so the Elders have me by the........toes?
Good Morning everyone!
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112
Thinking about Bill Bowen...
by Pathofthorns ini was looking over the thread... "should i support bill bowen?".
i realize i am one of the few people that gave bill somewhat of a difficult time pretty much from the beginning when it was not "fashionable" to do so.
it was never my hope to see the man reduced to what he has, but rather to gain a better understanding of the issues involved, the intents and goals of silentlambs and to see reasonableness govern everyone's actions in the whole affair.. imo, i don't think there is any other single person in the last while that has done so much to help address the issue of child abuse among jw's while at the same time exposing them for what they really are.
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RevMalk
Well, that could be my fault. I was rather harsh on him. I didn't mean to be really, I kept trying to tell him to back off, but he wouldn't. Everywhere I turned he'd hammer me with ridiculous comments about me commenting. As if I shouldn't be allowed an opinion here just like everyone else. I do think everyone, including fjroth deserves a chance to be heard. But I do tend to freak out when I'm told I shouldn't enjoy that same privilege. I don't know for a fact that this is why he left (with his posts) or not, but he should know that in reality I have no problem with him (or anyone else) voicing his/her opinion. I do, however wish for the same courtesy.
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112
Thinking about Bill Bowen...
by Pathofthorns ini was looking over the thread... "should i support bill bowen?".
i realize i am one of the few people that gave bill somewhat of a difficult time pretty much from the beginning when it was not "fashionable" to do so.
it was never my hope to see the man reduced to what he has, but rather to gain a better understanding of the issues involved, the intents and goals of silentlambs and to see reasonableness govern everyone's actions in the whole affair.. imo, i don't think there is any other single person in the last while that has done so much to help address the issue of child abuse among jw's while at the same time exposing them for what they really are.
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RevMalk
RevMalk,
What makes you think anyone wants to listen to you either?
Apparently you want to or you wouldn't be showing by your replies that you're reading everything I write.
fjtoth
I'm reading everything everyone writes stupid, that's why it's here. But if in YOUR mind that constitutes genuine interest, I'm glad to see that you show an interest in my opinions, it's good the hear. However, I for one could live without your ignorance. If you have something to say, at least make it sound intelligent. You babble on and on and on with your ridiculous comments that are not based in fact, or even remotely close. You tell other people to leave when you're the one that should be leaving. I have seen nothing here contributed by you that's worth the web space you've used. I encourage you to go back to school or read a book or something, it might help.
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112
Thinking about Bill Bowen...
by Pathofthorns ini was looking over the thread... "should i support bill bowen?".
i realize i am one of the few people that gave bill somewhat of a difficult time pretty much from the beginning when it was not "fashionable" to do so.
it was never my hope to see the man reduced to what he has, but rather to gain a better understanding of the issues involved, the intents and goals of silentlambs and to see reasonableness govern everyone's actions in the whole affair.. imo, i don't think there is any other single person in the last while that has done so much to help address the issue of child abuse among jw's while at the same time exposing them for what they really are.
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RevMalk
fjtoth,
You are a class "A" idiot. I have made maybe 10 posts in a month on this subject, how many have you made? What's the matter, only your ignorant opinions count around here? What makes you think anyone wants to listen to you either?