They're doing the same everywhere. I guess they're into something. Probably the GB know the real numbers of JWs are falling or will fall deeply in some years and are selling properties before it's so obvious. Or maybe donations have been falling. Or a combination of both. Who knows...
Skepsis
JoinedPosts by Skepsis
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news... From ITALY
by biblexaminer inan old friend, a "brother" called from italy.
updated on a few things.. most interestingly, he said they just had their final assembly at their "beautiful assembly hall".. why would it be the final assembly?
because it's sold!.
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Are congregations in Spain suffering an increase in banking fees since Watchtower 'seized' their bank savings?
by jwleaks inremember a few years ago watchtower literally 'siezed' all individual congregation bank savings around the world above what was needed to cover basic kingdom hall monthly expenses?
a new march 30, 2017, boe letter has just gone out to congregations in spain, which, more or less, explains that congregations bank account funds no longer entitle congregations to reduced banking fees.
(see copy of actual paragraph below.).
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Skepsis
I'm living in Spain and I don't pay fees for banking transfers or most basic banking services. It's normal for corporate accounts but not for private accounts.
There are plenty of online banks out there and some are subsidiaries of traditional banks. Even if you have an account in a traditional bank when you have to pay those fees, you can go to the local agency to negotiate with the zone director for better conditions. For example, if you have your salary payed monthly, you may get no fees.
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Observations From an Ex-Elder Part 3 - Searching for the Lost Sheep
by doubtfull1799 in"what man among you with 100 sheep, on losing one of them, will not leave the 99 behind in the wilderness and go after the lost one until he finds it?
" - luke 15:4. disclaimer: by posting the following observations i am not complaining.
i am happy to be left alone.
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Skepsis
I think most of the appointed men in the congregations are burnt out and many don't step down because there are no one wanting to serve these days.
I remenber the days when I was a child that there used to be body of elders with up to 8 or 9 elders but now I find it's common to sre congregations with four or five elders.
Plus, many elders are having to do work that in the past was done by ministerial servants as there are very few, even less than elders.
I know congregations where accounts, territories and others assignments are done by elders.
These days all male brothers I know are insisted to accept being MS and when being MS for some years, to be appointed as elders. I know brothers that now are MS that a decade ago would have never been considered.
Some brothers succumb to pressure and accept it but they don't really want to serve so just imagine how much effort they will put into it. Do you think are they doing tasks that are voluntary or that someone is not going to check if it's done?
The biggest problem for WT is apathy as there are many inside that still need to be shepherded and controlled but give nothing: no work for the congo, no contributing...
In the future WT will have to do something: consolidate even more (150 pubs per congo to have 5-6 elders on each?), assign sisters to MS roles or at least give to them some role in territories, accounting, etc or simplify how a congregation is run (most talks from the WT-TV, etc).
If things follow the same, in 5 or 10 years most of the work supposed to be done will be impossible to do as a lot of elders are in their 60s and 70s and retiring with no replacement in sight.
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How many years did you waste away in the Org?
by Tallon inin my case; 27 years.
7 of which were as a ministerial serpent ... sorry, i mean 'servant' ;).
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Skepsis
Doesn't matter how many years you spent, it's too much!
In my case, it has been almost all my youth. Just now I'm realising how many thing I haven't experienced for being a witness. No one can give your time back! :(
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June 2017 Watchtower - Jehovah's Sovereignty is at stake if you disagree with us
by Listener infour years ago the watchtower made the following demand.
all of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.
they are not content with obedience and in the upcoming june watchtower they have this to say -15. how does respect for theocratic headship reveal our love for jehovah’s way of ruling?15 what is our response to divinely authorized headship?
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Skepsis
When there are so many references to 'be obedient', 'obedience' and so on, it's because something is going in the wrong way from the GB's viewpoint. The more this kind of articles are published, the worst might be the attitude of those inside the org towards the WT hierarchy.
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Becoming the average JW (and what I found out about the average 'Joe Witness')
by Skepsis inuntil a couple of months ago i was an uber-spiritual pioneer, only having association with other pioneers, elders and others who would fill in the category i classified as "spiritually acceptable" friends.. but since stopping pioneering and having more time to think about my doubts and what i really believe (or better said, what i no longer believe), i have started getting to know other less spiritual brothers and sisters of the area.
in fact, my old friends are starting to forget me quite quickly, i must say.
so, i guess my next move in fading is becoming what i call the average witness.. and what did i discover?
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Skepsis
For me, who really believed in all the theology of the WT and thought in terms of 'black and white' is so astounding to discover a new whole dimension inside the Org. This is a more normal, healthy and balanced way of living as a Witness. I just can't stand meeting with the pompous brothers who want to climb the ladder of a Theocratic career.
I'm very happy eating out after meetings with normal witnesses rather than being in the select club of the Most Idiot Slaves of the Wachtower. How could I have been one of them? Why was I so stupid? :S
And yes, now I'd go to the kind of parties James Jack describes. When is the next one?
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Last Sunday's WT Study re Anxiety
by Nicholaus Kopernicus inthis article could be seen as a nice read compared with the banality and repetitiveness of many articles in recent years.
however, several areas in the article still troubled me.
paragraph one externalises the cause of an individual’s anxiety to satan the devil.
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Skepsis
I'd recommend to brothers suffering from anxiety and stress to take a free weekend in the beach, the countryside or visiting another city, far from any Kingdom Hall.
I'm able to forecast instant improvement. Just keep doing it regularly and symptoms may dissapear.
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Becoming the average JW (and what I found out about the average 'Joe Witness')
by Skepsis inuntil a couple of months ago i was an uber-spiritual pioneer, only having association with other pioneers, elders and others who would fill in the category i classified as "spiritually acceptable" friends.. but since stopping pioneering and having more time to think about my doubts and what i really believe (or better said, what i no longer believe), i have started getting to know other less spiritual brothers and sisters of the area.
in fact, my old friends are starting to forget me quite quickly, i must say.
so, i guess my next move in fading is becoming what i call the average witness.. and what did i discover?
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Skepsis
Until a couple of months ago I was an uber-spiritual pioneer, only having association with other pioneers, elders and others who would fill in the category I classified as "spiritually acceptable" friends.
But since stopping pioneering and having more time to think about my doubts and what I really believe (or better said, what I no longer believe), I have started getting to know other less spiritual brothers and sisters of the area. In fact, my old friends are starting to forget me quite quickly, I must say.
So, I guess my next move in fading is becoming what I call the average Witness.
And what did I discover? I found out 'Joe Witness' likes going to meetings to have dinner later at the Chinese restaurant close to the Kingdom Hall. I discovered conversations during the meal are about sports, cars, technology... and almost nothing about the religion or things even vaguely spiritual.
I had a conversation with a brother in his 40s who regrets having no education and no prospect of getting a job. Another brother told me he had a relationship with a non-Witness girl who he loved but they broke up as he couldn't damage his family getting married with someone who is not a JW. He's now depressed for having to renounce to what he wanted to do also for thinking he will never find a partner 'in the Lord'.
I have to admit it's a shock for me. I lived in my own bubble thinking all JWs were happy and the Borg as a whole was almost perfect. I only spoke with spiritual brothers, who said what is supposed you have to say according to the WT. Only when I realised I wasn't happy and didn't know why (contrary to the happiness I was told I had to experience as a witness), I could see something was wrong.
What I see now from the average Witness (that make up 70-80% of the congregations) is boredom, disappointment and a very low morale.
Seeing this, I'd say future for the WT is dark. Very dark.
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Sad news from the Spanish Front
by Hecce ini think the majority of forum friends are aware of the existence of a vibrant watchtower opposition in the spanish field.
for about 13 years the extj forum was probably the main instrument for that endeavor, sadly the couple sponsoring that site decided to close it at the end of last year.
it seems like they were overwhelmed with personal obligations and responsibilities; they were covering a 100% of the expenses without any outside cooperation or publicity.. after the closing of their forum, some of the friends started new sites to keep the flow of information alive.
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Skepsis
OSpanish is my mother tongue and before signing up on this board, I visited sometimes Spanish language websites when I really believed in the so-called 'Truth'.
What I found was bitterness and mocking of the WT. Now I can understand it to a certain degree but when you visit sites like those being still a true believer, you tend to confirm what the WT always say: apostates hate us.
I understand it's important to denounce what the WT has done and there are people deeply hurt by the WT but I find the general tone of this board more appropiate than the websites I sometimes visited in the past. That's only IMHO.
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How much money people usually donate to WT ?
by Bardamu ini grew up in the org and never got baptised, however i was wondering recently about how much money my family and old friends are wasting in all that.
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i remember of course never talking in amounts, that it was important to give from what you can not what you have etc but i admit i have no clue how much the average witness gives (say in % of their income).. i'm sure it varies greatly, i'd love to hear what you guys have to say..
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Skepsis
Until 3 or 4 months ago, I used to donate €50 per month. Later, I stop donating. What I do know is that my congregation has a monthly deficit in the last year or an small surplus.