I had already said in another post, I visited a ex-Jehovah's Witnesses forum in my native language that no longer exists and when I read all the hate and resentment against the WT, immediately stopped visiting that site. That was 3 or 4 years ago and it had the effect of making me more sceptical about so-called apostates.
Skepsis
JoinedPosts by Skepsis
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45
What did NOT get you out?
by problemaddict 2 ini realize this is odd, but a "how you woke up" thread and the personal stories that are told which i know we all enjoy, made me think of this.
in helping my wife and a couple others get the ball rolling, i realized the thing that resonated with me, didn't even move the needle with them.
i wanted to rail on and on about blood, because that was my conduit to waking up, but for my wife it was about shunning.
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Dutch conventions organized like circuits
by Gorbatchov inhere in holland jw.org is organizing for the first time the yearly conventions like circuits.
the whole summer the new convention hall is used for small group conventions instead of 10.000 seat external halls.. it keeps the money in the organization.
not renting external buildings.. the 29.000 witnesses here are divided now into 2.000 seat audience.. g..
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Skepsis
Let's see what happens with attendance numbers. Witnesses were waiting the previous months to big Summer Conventions to see older friends, meet new brothers from other parts, the young ones used these special occasions to meet other young people...
So now, witnesses are going to limit their social circles even more to the 10-12 closer congregations in their area. From a financial point of view, it makes sense but it will affect how the rank and file see conventions.
Now young ones have no chance to get to Bethel because in most European countries there are no branches, they can't be special pioneers, now they don't have big conventions... I can't see how WT will motivate their young ones.
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Foreign Language Field and Fading
by NoviceLocs14 inhey guys.
first of all, i want to thank everyone for being so welcoming and helpful on this forum.... i was thinking about my last 3 years as a jw when i was attending the portuguese congregation and learning that language to bring in more converts.
interestingly, we were told not to attend meetings in our native language in order to immerse ourselves in the new language.
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Skepsis
In my case, I'm serving in a foreign language congregation and I'm fading. I think in some respects is harder, at least in my personal experience.
Being in a small foreign language congretation makes you have more parts, more responsibilities and you are easily noticed if you start missing meetings. Plus, in those kind of congregations tend to be more zealous elders and pioneers who are always telling you to go in field service with them.
But it's different if you're new in that congregation and you're moving to fade. In that case, you can tell the elders you need your time to adapt to the language.
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How did you overcome feelings of lost time in the Org?
by Skepsis ini'm a very positive person who always try to focus on the good side of things.. however, my fading is becoming increasingly painful and i'm starting being shunned by some i thought were friends.
i'm missing some meetings so the rumour is spreading to neighbouring congregations where i'm known that i'm not as spiritual as i used to be.
elders want to have a shepherding meeting with me.
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Skepsis
Thank you everyone for your messages and advices!
Well, I'm not in the USA, I live in a southern European country and that's the answers I'm getting here. That's in part why I'm moving abroad in September but mainly it's because I want to fade quicker.
Anyway, I'm not expressing doubts openly, it's the fact I'm doing less than in the past and starting missing some meetings what is annoying some people. So, I assume that except for the family, fading, DA or DF are the same in practical terms.
There's another reason behind elders' attitude: I'm moving to another country soon and they see it as a materialistic goal. Well, I don't really mind. Maybe I could have done it in a softer way but after quitting pioneering I just couldn't stay as MS, giving public talks and having parts every week knowing the TTATT.
It was my purpose when I joined the board but I just don't want to waste more of my time and my mental health in this cult. So I told them I'm stepping down as MS in August.
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12
How did you overcome feelings of lost time in the Org?
by Skepsis ini'm a very positive person who always try to focus on the good side of things.. however, my fading is becoming increasingly painful and i'm starting being shunned by some i thought were friends.
i'm missing some meetings so the rumour is spreading to neighbouring congregations where i'm known that i'm not as spiritual as i used to be.
elders want to have a shepherding meeting with me.
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Skepsis
I'm a very positive person who always try to focus on the good side of things.
However, my fading is becoming increasingly painful and I'm starting being shunned by some I thought were friends. I'm missing some meetings so the rumour is spreading to neighbouring congregations where I'm known that I'm not as spiritual as I used to be. Elders want to have a shepherding meeting with me. Last meeting one of them was asking me personal questions like if I'm getting along with bad associations or if I'm hidding something.
At the same time, things outside the Org are not going exactly as I had planned. I'm doing job interviews to move from where I live and I'm being asked many times why I got my degree so late. Got some feedback from one of the companies I was interested and told me I was not selected because of my age (almost 30) and not having enough experience despite having done it well in the process.
Regarding meeting new people, I find it so hard. I keep trying to go to different activities but I'm starting to feel a bit alone recently. Yesterday I went to have dinner with some brothers but that feeling of loneliness was even greater, sitting there and having to listen to JW conversations about how fast the Ends is approaching or how incredible the JW.ORG videos are.
I hadn't experienced that feeling until now but it's quite depressing to look back in your life, when you were in your 20s and wasting so much time instead of doing something useful for your future.
I guess I just needed to rant about it.
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2017 International Regional Convention, Toronto – Entertainment at Sony Centre
by SAHS ini’ve been hearing from several very reliable sources that there will be an exclusive elite gala entertainment event hosted by the watch tower organization, featuring specially chosen jehovah’s witnesses of outstanding talent as well as spiritual reputation, at the sony centre (formerly called the o’keefe centre) in toronto, ontario (canada) as a special “after hours” addition to the 2017 special international convention.. those chosen have to meet very strict criteria, including, not so much technical and popular talents, but, rather, their spiritual maturity which can be easily and practically related to by the audience (i.e., degree of conformity – you know what i mean!).
a notable and very well-known professional “super star” from some other country (i don’t know which one) who has achieved highly recognized and popular talent was surprisingly not chosen to participate in the extra entertainment program, whereas other performers with rather ho-hum musical abilities ended up being selected, ostensibly for their altruistic and “theocratic” qualities.
(something tells me that there is going to be some jealousy and indignant, hard feelings over this rather authoritarian, arbitrary selection process.
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Skepsis
It seems quite cultish. I mean, yes, it's ok to spend additional time with local brothers having some fun but why can't you spend part of the time visiting the city on your own whithout complete control from the Org? Do you really need to train brothers to be your tourist guides when there are real tourist guides?
In fact, those events organised by local brothers are a charge to them in terms of work and money and in the way they described it, looks like a commercial event to raise funds.
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Human origins pushed back further into the past
by fulltimestudent inscience is a self-correcting journey.
any error in thought will be corrected by later research or discoveries, so the common concept that we humans (homo sapiens) developed something like 200,000 years ago is undergoing a major correction.
the discovery of fossilised bones of at least five individuals have been recovered from an old mine in morocco.
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Skepsis
How would a JW think when listening to this kind of news or at a History class in highschool when teacher explains about last Glaciation period 12000 years ago or Paleolithic and then reading the Bible and being tols Adam was created 6000 years ago?
I could never reconcile both things. I couldn't deny that it was nonsense what Bible says and tried to interpreted it for myself as approximate dates. But then I wandered: if God couldn't get correct numbers about it in the Bible, how do I know the rest of the book is literal and correct? Could it be an inspired human point of view?
It was a source of concern for me so I tried hard not to think about it.
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Wanting Less Involvement (long newbie story)
by DepthsResounding ini was raised a jw and am currently pioneer in a foreign language congregation.
i have been unhappy on and off with my involvement in this religion and am ready to step back again.
growing up i was always active but extremely reserved and a low hour publisher.
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Skepsis
Hi DR,
I started reading your OP and notice my story is quite similar: pioneer, have gone to college, serving in a foreign language congregation... I am also a MS for the moment.
I think you could do it step by step. First of all, quitting pioneering was of great help for me as I had suddenly plenty of time to think, dedicate to my career and do non-JWs things.
Then, I stopped doing the trolleys and started missing some meetings now and then.
Now I'm at that point. At first, I have to tell you that you'll disappoint brothers when you stop being a spiritual pillar of the congregation but it's a matter of time (less than you think) until they come to terms with it.
I'm planning to move to another "normal" congregation after summer as you'll know it's hard to fade in this kind of zealous congregations filled with pioneers and zealous witnesses.
Hope all will be fine in your fine. Just try not speak too much because elders and others will try to ask about your reasons and motivations. Don't explain just tell them you need time or are busy and you don't have circumstances to keep serving at that pace.
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48% Capacity at Kingdom Halls - A post on reddit
by berrygerry inthere was a letter read this week, followed by a talk about all the changes that are coming in the next couple of months regarding merging congregations in the area (va/md/dc) - the letter said that the kh's in the area are only being filled to 48% capacity.
this was music to my ears as i have noticed the decline in attendance in all the neighboring congregations.
they will sell some kingdom halls and merge some congregations.
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Skepsis
Crazyguy:
Yes, in fact they made a huge U-turn when Bethel in Spain annouced they were going to enlarge their facilities because the GB had give them the task of printing more stuff and translation so they made an announcement in all congregation for donations and contributions with a nationally produced video.
Just some months later, they annouced they stop printing even for Spain, most bethelites quit Bethel and all would be carried out from London except for basic administration.
The men in charge of Bethel in Spain were completely humiliated.
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48% Capacity at Kingdom Halls - A post on reddit
by berrygerry inthere was a letter read this week, followed by a talk about all the changes that are coming in the next couple of months regarding merging congregations in the area (va/md/dc) - the letter said that the kh's in the area are only being filled to 48% capacity.
this was music to my ears as i have noticed the decline in attendance in all the neighboring congregations.
they will sell some kingdom halls and merge some congregations.
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Skepsis
Its the same here in Spain and Southern Europe, folks.
Most congregations are full of people in their 60s and 70s but not many young ones. Body of Elders with many who would like to step down because of their age but are not allowed to do so as there are no replacements.
Those brothers under their 40s are mostly Witness In Name Only who sit there in meeting but don't show up at field service or doing something for the congregation.
There are a limited number of convinced young witness with more responsabilities each day and who as consequence are burnt out.
There's a lack of prepared brothers with skills at congregational and regional level.
I could see that when I was a truly believer and was very worry as many of them are. But now, I realise they're getting what they deserve if we consider how they've mistreated the young ones in the past: no education, only pioneering, put the Org first... And then at their 40s and 50s suffer the consequences.
People are learning from older generations.