Sanchy

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Posts by Sanchy

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  7

  Is Obedience to JW BoE / GBoJW a Christian Requirement?

  by Nicholaus Kopernicus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in this discussion, we will be examining three precepts on the part of the gbojw which they use to claim that we should be obedient to them and their boe.

  these precepts are.... - the bible instructs to be so.

  - boe are appointed by holy spirit.

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  Sanchy

  I don't think the Bible is God's word anymore but I do appreciate using scriptures that show the GB/WTS to be full of bunk!
  

  Agreed! Thanks for post Nic.
  
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  57

  How do we know JWs are wrong and how do we convince others JWs are wrong: logic versus persuasion

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we like to think we are logical and have good reasons for for our beliefs.

  no more so than when it comes to our reasons for rejecting the truth claims of jws.

  we reject their version of history, such as the date of the fall of jerusalem, because it doesn't agree with the historical evidence.

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  Sanchy

  I think we all had different triggers that pushed us over the edge. There are those that are more "black-and-white" type folks that are convinced strictly with doctrinal facts. There are others that know many of the doctrinal problems within the JW faith but are not pushed completely out until they see some of the arrogant quotes published, the child abuse cover-ups, the hypocrisy with the UN membership and other similar scandals. Having said that, regardless of our reasons for leaving, we are all reinforced in TTATT as we get to know and come in contact with the growing exJW community.
  

  For me, I'd say it's a little bit of all, but my starting point was doubts about 1914.
  
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  28

  Reason why you didn't have the Heavenly hope, Anointed..

  by James Mixon in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  when i found out what was in store for those with the heavenly hope, no thank you.

  i love you jehovah.

  but i also love the fruits here on earth.

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  Sanchy

  Not so long ago, deegee posted sobre interesting advantages that the annointed have over the other sheep:

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5114840175607808/glaring-inequity-between-144-000-great-crowd
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  60

  The problem of sex (or why I'm not an atheist)

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  as i write this under the shadow of the walls of saint jorge's castle in lisbon, two very bored jws are standing just five metres away from me with a literature cart .... in my journey away from jwism i accepted evolution as a fact.

  i also became anti-religion, agnostic and apatheist.

  and, while i lean towards the persuasion of the atheist arguments, there are a few reasons that make it difficult for me to completely discard the notion of an intelligent origin of life.

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  Sanchy

  Cofty, honest question as someone who knows not much of evolutionary biology but is trying to learn more daily but is still troubled in some redpects as OP is: How much of this explanation covering billions of years is based on observable evidence vs theory and assumptions and/or can any of those steps be replicated in a lab?

  In other words, how certain is science regarding this process you describe?
  
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  9

  Freedom of Religion vs. Freedom of Worship and Belief (or non-belief)

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was just wondering about this:.

  the laws of the different western countries offer robust protection to religious practice.

  but what is the best term to describe it and why?

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  Sanchy

  I think there is some potential with tax laws; however, it could be disastrous if a government were to start deciding which religion gets taxed and which does not. The only fair way me thinks is an all or none situation in that case.

  No way around it. Best solution to bad religion is education. The internet continues to do mighty well in this dept.
  
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  9

  Freedom of Religion vs. Freedom of Worship and Belief (or non-belief)

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was just wondering about this:.

  the laws of the different western countries offer robust protection to religious practice.

  but what is the best term to describe it and why?

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  Sanchy

  Nor should JWs have the right instruct or encourage the shunning of former members on religious grounds.

  I disagree. Freedom to worship a deity as one deems appropriate and as per their conscience is an absolute necessity in a free society. When the gov steps in to prevent or limit this, as has happened many times in the past, a tyranny inevitably forms. Allowing unfortunate ideologies like that of shunning former members is a small price to pay to preserve universal rights and a free society.

  Religious rights stops when crime is committed as in the case of "Muslims murdering apostates".
  
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  30

  Why A Divine Being is Possible

  by looter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now we all have heard how the universe is composed of matter and space.

  and we always here of how it had a beginning.

  but really what could have begun it?

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  Sanchy

  I'm calling troll on this one.
  
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  44

  The Atheist Delusion

  by looter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  atheist delusion.

  just want to know what the ex jw community thinks about this video and also offer my pov.

  the video was actually an advertisement on here.

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  Sanchy

  God possibly could have used evolution to create the earth since it was a long process of a few years.

  Huh? Come on Looter. Please research what evolution is.
  
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  57

  Got my JC cancelled... (at least for now)

  by Sanchy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so my wife and i have been in the process of fading for a few months now as per my original post here.

  about a week ago, i was browsing some ex-jw facebook groups when i saw a post that linked to the crisis of conscience book.

  i said "f@(k it" and hit share on it.. a few hours later, i get a long text letter from my mom (who was a fb friend of mine) telling me the typical "good luck finding friends in the world" and how we have "nothing in common anymore"; basically, it was a 'farewell' text.

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  Sanchy

  Ok, here's the corrected post (Simon, FYI it keeps happening that editing my posts results in other changes and even deleted sections)

  So I met with them last night, and even though I knew I probably shot myself in the foot, I decided to layout a defense based on my conscience not being respected. Here's a brief summary:

  They began by saying that they had brothers coming to them left and right anguished by the book they saw me post and that now they were in a situation where they needed to act because the matter had become public and the friends need some kind of response as to what my status is (basically telling me they need to show friends they are handling the matter)

  I started then by saying I should not have posted the FB link. I had originally promised myself I would not interfere with others faith, so, I told them I regret doing it and thus breaking my own pledge and that I would not do it again.

  Having said that, I outlined the situation I'm in and what motivated me to post that book was the issue I wanted to bring to light, it being the lack of a way to exit this org without severe and cruel punishment. I showed them the July/2009 Awake article that says one should not have to choose between family and beliefs. When presented with this, they stuttered a bit, mumbled some words and ended up saying "well, that applies to other religions", to which I nodded my head and said: "you see?". I mentioned how before the early 80s, JWs were allowed to disassociate without the punishment of excommunication and that after that policy changed it created a big community of dissidents that had no viable options to leave. I told them how I got caught up in the moment from reading experiences of grandmas being cut off from their family, or teens committing suicide, and so I felt like I needed to speak up. That's why I posted that in FB. However, (I brown nosed a bit) and told them that I realize it was not the appropriate way of doing it; that perhaps I should have instead tried writing the branch or venting directly with the elders.

  I pleaded with them, reminding them that in my situation, an expulsion would be not a 1 or 2 year thing, but rather, a lifetime punishment. My kids would be raised without getting to know their grandparents. I’d be dead to them, and all because my conscience dictates I cannot continue serving God in this way. I read to them the first few verses of Romans 14 which states to not judge someone because of differing opinion, to which they nodded their head and knew not what to say.

  Then they went on to defend “the truth”, one of them saying that before learning it, he had been a Catholic, yet didn’t see “truth” there, then he went to the Adventists and saw no “truth” there, to which I interrupted and said: “but you were able to leave said religions when your conscience told you to do so. Do we JWs have the same right to do so without severe and cruel punishment?

  After a while of back-and-forth along these lines, I again mentioned that I regretted posting the FB link and that I would not do it again, thanked them for their time, drifted off into conversing about one of the elder's sick elderly father who is currently in the hospital, and ended the meeting without prayer.

  My thoughts: This meeting seemed to me to be just a formality. I could tell by their faces that coming into the meeting, they were ready to establish a JC no matter what. However, they were taken back a bit with the defense I put up regarding my conscience not being respected and so by the end of the meeting, it seemed to me that they were at a lost as to how they would proceed.

  What I suspect happened was that when I objected to the JC during their initial call to inform me of it, they made a spur the moment decision to have the "admonishing" meeting I requested, figuring it would basically just be a meeting to tell me why a JC must occur. I suspect they never even told the rest of the BoE of their accepting to meet with me before the JC. Now, how will they tell the rest of the body that they went against their vote for a judicial committee and instead met with me, and even worst, how will they try to argue now in my favor? They wont, I doubt it.

  I suspect they will meet in the next meeting, they will explain that they met with me first as per some request of mine, they will say I regretted posting the FB link but that I did not want to get DF'd because I didn't want to lose my family. The rest of the body will probably say something along the lines of "oh well, he should have thought of that before making the decisions that he did. He's the one that left. Jehovah's law is clear and the holy spirit has already guided us to decide on the matter that there must be a JC". So, I'm almost certain I will get a call within the next few days to schedule the committee meeting.

  Now, something I did hear the brothers mention is that a JC does not necessarily mean expulsion, kinda hinting to me that an option would be to publicly reprove me. That way the friends would see that action was taken in this public matter, and I would not be excommunicated. I don't know what to make of this.
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  57

  Got my JC cancelled... (at least for now)

  by Sanchy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so my wife and i have been in the process of fading for a few months now as per my original post here.

  about a week ago, i was browsing some ex-jw facebook groups when i saw a post that linked to the crisis of conscience book.

  i said "f@(k it" and hit share on it.. a few hours later, i get a long text letter from my mom (who was a fb friend of mine) telling me the typical "good luck finding friends in the world" and how we have "nothing in common anymore"; basically, it was a 'farewell' text.

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  Sanchy

  Ok, I edited this post and it deleted some paragraphs, so I'm re-writing and re-posting in a few mins