TheWonderofYou

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Posts by TheWonderofYou

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  11

  Comparing the Septuagint to the Masoretic Text

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i am going to start a thread comparing the septuagint to the masoretic text.for those who do not know what the septuagint and the masoretic text are, here's an introduction on wikipedia:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/septuagint.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/masoretic_text.

  i think that, more than anything else, the fact that the septuagint and the masoretic text are so different, is what made me stop believing in the bible.. since the new testament writers quoted from the septuagint, not from the masoretic text, one would think that the septuagint should be in all the current bibles, but the case is that most bibles today use the masoretic text as the basis of their old testament.

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  TheWonderofYou

  Earnest - Considering it a sacrilege to use some substitute as kyrios ortheos, the scribes inserted the tetragrammaton at its proper place in the Greek version text.

  There were obvioulsy several different Septuagint in usage, if I remember correct, and we dont have it today anymore. Perhaps on my next Israel trip I can find a scroll in a tomb.

  But this does not change anything in the fact that the Tetragram was not spoken out since the Jews returned from Babylon only by the priests, althought the holy texts were copied with the four letters.

  They may have read YHWH in some LXX exemplar but they didnot spell it . They always replaced it by Adonai or other terms. Translating the Lords Name with kyrios was no sacrileg at all, because it was always to see that the NAME OF GOD was meant but simply should not been spelled. There were more conservatice translators and more progressive ones but both are right.

  Certainly jesus often quoted from the Septuagint and used Kyrios and did not spell loud the four letters of the Tetragram nor spell the name in hebrew or aramaic, because he would have been stoned for such blasphemy.

  Hey everyone who spoke greek if he addressed god said KYRIOS at that time.Therefore the bible was translated into greek and it said Kyrios. Simple they didnt want that people began to spell the holy sacried name as "Yohawuah, or Yehiwei". They wanted to avoid this and that people used it in daily things and said,

  "Oh Yehiwei helped me to find my keys again, Oh thank you Yehiwei that my Iphone doesn hangup.", Or "Yehiwehi please please please help to find a girl",

  The worst: "Mum, I swear in Yehiwehis name that I learned for the math test."
  "Please Yehiwehi dont kill me in Armageddon, and dont let me die without blood"

  They didnt like the profan usage of G-Ds name those extrem conversative Jews at Jesus time.

  ___

  A fictive story:

  One evening Jesus met his apostels and he told them:

  "I tell you now the name of God because i want it to proclaim to you,

  did you already hear how the highpriest spells the Tetragram in the temple while the other priest are singing so that nobody can hear it, what do you mean, Peter?"

  "You dare asking me such a question, you know we are not allowed to spell it, Master".

  "You dont understand me yet, i am speaking of something else when I say I proclaim the name to you "

  "Proclaiming _ -? -*** doesnt not mean spell out the Tetragram?" asked Peter rethorically.

  
  3"For I proclaim the name of the LORD; Ascribegreatness to our God! 4"The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; A God of faithfulness and without injustice, Righteous and upright is He.…
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  5

  Audiobible NWT

  by TheWonderofYou in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i took a look a the org video about the new audiobible and the production process.. most disturbing for me is that the voice of bro.

  jackson seems to be always the voice of jesus throughout the bible.

  he was the gb member who made the appearance in the australian child abuse commission.. i dont like his voice as jesus and will never listen to the audio bible therefore.. what me wonders much is, how much work those sis and bros do to identify similar speakers in the four gospels so that always the same speaker speaks and how they handle that.. to cover the whole bibel 1000 speakers have been identified and will be trained in reading correctly.. some questions are if the bible says that jehovah speaks, did he really speak himself or something else or if a passage says that the apostel said something, who of the apostels was it actually?.

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  TheWonderofYou

  I took a look a the ORG video about the new audiobible and the production process.

  Most disturbing for me is that the voice of Bro. Jackson seems to be always the voice of JESUS throughout the bible. He was the GB member who made the appearance in the Australian child abuse commission.

  I dont like his voice as Jesus and will never listen to the audio bible therefore.

  What me wonders much is, how much work those sis and bros do to identify similar speakers in the four gospels so that always the same speaker speaks and how they handle that.

  To cover the whole bibel 1000 speakers have been identified and will be trained in reading correctly.

  Some questions are if the bible says that Jehovah speaks, did he really speak himself or something else or if a passage says that the apostel said something, who of the apostels was it actually?

  They are coping with some heavy problems in their job. Its only a pitty that the background information is not given out for the public.

  This BETHEL team is busy and blessed because it has not been LAYED OFF!!

  
  

  This kind of multiple-speaker audio bible is something new.

  https://tv.jw.org/#en/video/VODOurActivities/pub-jwbrd_201507_1_VIDEO

  Bible reader schedule

  

  

  Sister audio-engineer assisted by a team of helpful hands

  
  
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  11

  Comparing the Septuagint to the Masoretic Text

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i am going to start a thread comparing the septuagint to the masoretic text.for those who do not know what the septuagint and the masoretic text are, here's an introduction on wikipedia:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/septuagint.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/masoretic_text.

  i think that, more than anything else, the fact that the septuagint and the masoretic text are so different, is what made me stop believing in the bible.. since the new testament writers quoted from the septuagint, not from the masoretic text, one would think that the septuagint should be in all the current bibles, but the case is that most bibles today use the masoretic text as the basis of their old testament.

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  TheWonderofYou

  The theologicyl terms that were used by the early biblewriters and christians they used as they were written in the Septuagint,."law", "mercy", "truth"....Generally important is that if somebody read the greek bible, automatically the greek understanding of a word was in his mind and not so much the ancient hebrew interpretaion.

  Separated from LXX the NT would have been almost unintelligible to the contemporary reader, according to B. Atkinson.

  Text of Septuagint

  Greek

  https://www.bibelwissenschaft.de/online-bibeln/septuaginta-lxx/lesen-im-bibeltext/

  English http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/nets/edition/

  http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/nets/
  

  English - Greek http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/greek-texts/septuagint/chapter.asp?book=30
  
  

  Which text do you use? Certainly you have everything on DVD.

  Septuagint German with comments set for € 149,-

  
  

  this is an example how the comments to Genesis 1ff look like. Harmonization

  

  
  
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  19

  Are hot springs and saunas approved by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses?

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  satan’s snares today.

  in the main, satan’s tricks have not changed over the centuries.

  in order for christians living in the corrupt city of corinth not to be “overreached by satan,” the apostle paul gave them strong counsel.

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  TheWonderofYou

  I am a irregular visitor of mixed saunas. Dear me! Here in Europe the sauna sectors are sometimes more beautiful and more relaxing than the associated normal pool sector. The hotel saunas are more comfortable. There are special periods for women and men and periods for mixed sauna.

  Was it a sin if I once or twice saw nude persons? Dear me! Since I am married we irregularly visit saunas. Some older people have subscriptions and are there nearly always. I will propose to call this area "Little Corinth".

  I use the sport swimming pool, the hot spring pool and the sauna sector with salted water and 2 finish saunas, Infrared and biosauna with lights and lowtemperature and 1 vapor sauna, where I like to cream myself with honey cream or sea-salt or other natural things and wait for the steam.

  After showering I go to outer pool and how relaxing it is to swim and to look at the sky. But Dear me. There are so many nude persons going around and swimmingl ! Beautiful women I saw so many in Prague/Czech Sauna, but my wife is more beautiful.

  In my area it is not allowed to wear swimsuit in a sauna. If you go to the pool and sauna you are nude but if you go around you can hide yourself behind a towel or coat always if you like, thats no problem. Around the saunas there are areas with gras and sun lounger where you have the to get whole-body suntan.

  Here on the picture of the sauna I sometimes visit.

  
  

  
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  19

  Shunned by family

  by Ruth in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  my fiancé is an ex-jehovah’s witness.

  when he was 18 years old, his 17 year old brother was killed in an accident.

  his parents having previously lost an infant daughter were understandably distraught and were therefore highly susceptible to an organisation which seemed to be able to supply definitive answers where more mainstream religion seemed to fail them..

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  TheWonderofYou

  freddo- His parents are so brainfrozen, desperate, needy, entrenched, unable to be wrong or whatever after decades of following false hopes and thinking they would be of a select few in paradise petting lions with their deceased loved ones that they are probably incapable at their age (assuming 80 plus) to act differently.

  How true, after all those decades of false hopes and endless clarfifactions..... for them remains at least a certain kind of paradise, the work of cleansing and monitoring as well as shunning in the congregation.
  

  
  
  
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  103

  JW and the Sabbath

  by Andromeda in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hello brothers and sisters and truth seekers,.

  i am an active jehovah's witness.

  i don't believe in 1914 and i'm tototally against their way of dealing with abuse cases.

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  TheWonderofYou

  But I should have found back to the Sabbath subject again after my extensive look at the "nation Israel". And you mentioned the "sons of God" as being the same as "Israel". I dont have a head for this now and I am going swimming now, after all 30 *C today.
  
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  103

  JW and the Sabbath

  by Andromeda in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hello brothers and sisters and truth seekers,.

  i am an active jehovah's witness.

  i don't believe in 1914 and i'm tototally against their way of dealing with abuse cases.

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  TheWonderofYou

  myelaine

  You refer to a point that I often rethink but latelty I always get to a point where I accept both meanings side-by side, the notion of the Jews today, who say they are under the convenant even today and the notion of the RC church who says the church is body of christ, new people of god.

  The church doesnt use as far as I know the term "Israelites" or "spiritual israelites" for the body of christ like Jehovas witnesses and perhaps other little similar theologians.

  When Paul spoke about the olive tree, and used the picture to show that people of nations could be nourished from the abrahamic root, The olive tree is not the same as the "Israelites"

  The usage of the term "israelite" for the body of christ I see as problematic. "people of God" okay, its a picture, that shows that in Christ all men shall become one people.
  

  
  

  but there IS one "israel"...galatians 3:28.

  In Galatians 3:28 Paul says that there is neither Jew nor Greek today in Christ, it doesnt say that it is one "israel".
  This does not mean that all people of nations become Israelites, just as little as it means that all jews become Greek.

  
  

  ******************************
  Instead of becoming part of Israel, Paul announces a new creature, the body of Christ that consists of two parts:

  1. of Jews (Israelites) from the nations and circumcised, Christians and therefore "true beliefers"

  2. and christians of nations.

  *******************************

  What happens is that

  The true believing Jews are becoming Part of the body of Christ

  and not reverse that the body of Christ becomes part of the Jews or "a spiritual nation Israel".

  Galatians 6,16

  15For neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything. What counts is a new creation.16Peace and mercy to all who walk by this rule,even to the Israel of God. 17From now on let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus.…

  "Israel of God" here seems to refer not to all true believers, but to those believers from Israel who took refuge in Christ. The first sentence refers to beliefers of the nations, and the "israel of god" seem to be the the jewish saints not simple all Israelites according to the letter.

  
  

  Instead of becoming part of Israel, Paul announces a new creature, the body of Christ.
  “Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace” –Ephesians 2:15
  Out of two groups, Jews and Gentiles, Christ made a new man and agency for salvation. This special agency is what we become when we are saved today. We do not know any man after the flesh, whether it is Israel or American or European (2 Cor 5:16).
  “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” – 2 Cor 5:17

  To think of being part of "spiritual Israel" is like always referring always to being part of nation after flesh nethertheless, like remainin in the "people" thinking.

  whereas the body of christ is a new man, a spiritual body (not nation) . Therefore I dont like the term "spiritual Israel".

  Sources:

  http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p2.htm

  Some thoughts refer to the wegpage of graceambassadors fellowship http://graceambassadors.com/prophecy/israel/does-the-bible-teach-a-spiritual-israel )

  https://www.bibelkommentare.de/?page=qa&answer_id=507)
  

  
  
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  4

  Kushner investor group closes deal for Watchtower building

  by recovering in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://nypost.com/2016/08/04/kushner-investor-group-closes-deal-for-watchtower-building/.

  an investor group led by jared kushner closed wednesday on the $340 million purchase of the jehovah’s witnesses headquarters buildings in downtown brooklyn.. extra detail jared kushner is donald trump's son in law.

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  TheWonderofYou

  "We're always looking to raise the bar for how today's top companies want to work, and this property will set a new standard," said Jared Kushner, CEO of Kushner Cos. "Over the next year, we'll begin transforming the property into one of the marquee urban office campuses anywhere in the country, let alone New York City."

  This iconic property, optimally located in a thriving community, has key elements that meet CIM’s investment criteria and further enhances our New York portfolio.

  Plans for the techno-friendly future usage by Kushner, how worldly people overtake the former watchtower buildings

  

  

  

  
  
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  12

  David H. Splane: The “Slave” Is Not 1900 Years Old (Matt. 24:45)

  by ToesUp in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  david splane video.

  morning worship.

  david splane attempts to explain why the "slave" is not 1900 years old.. warning...video may cause drowsiness!.

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  TheWonderofYou

  His first point was: They did not have the BASIS, the Scriptures in their own hand to read it for themselves and they could not read, because they were lilliterates, until 1000 the european kings could not read at all! Until 1500 nobody could read, neiter the world language in western hemisphere latin nor the world language in eastern hemisphere greek, they did not like to read or to learn reading those european tribes.

  Jesus proclaimed a gospel for all for illiterate and literate. The first christians didnt have their own bibles at home,because a bible was a treasure, they learn in the congregation of the talks of the bishops and diacenes, they listened to the gospel and became christians, they did not read it. Most were analphabets because not of the upper-class and nevertheless they were worthy to be in high rank positions in the church. I am not sure if peter e.g. could write complicated texts as fisherman or read at all.

  What a fortune that there were great teachers in the church that could read and great rabbis of the Jews that could read hebrew bible texts and preserved the treasure and took upon the responsibility ot leadership in the church and synagoges. Most were faitfhul and not seduced by the political power. Thanks those priests that read the bible in the monasteries and brought it to the people, and remembered the holy texts and explained it, jesus was loved

  Jehovahs witness played no role in the process of bringing the bible to the masses, that was done by catolics and protestants, and because the education for the people got better. JW did not exist in the 16th or 17th century! They very late jumped on the train and misused the bible as business scheme, where slaveworker produce bibles in the factory.

  So what right do JW have to benefit from "thanks catolic and protest available bibles for everyone" and blame the churches for not offering it earlier?

  JW are literal, understand the text, but produce stupid ideas. Reading the bible independenly is not everything , because you easily can produce misunderstanding, therefore watchtower prohibits reading the bible.
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  28

  Necessary Family Business (NFB) is now acceptable according to the weekly WT Study

  by Quarterback in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  during the last decade i've seen so many articles, and top speakers try to downplay that nfb policy.

  now, this weeks wt study mentions a positive experience of someone applying having, "contact and applying nfb with a df relative".

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  TheWonderofYou

  NFB Thats super!! ??? Really. The society is concentrating now more on family matters, YEAH!!! ?? Really?

  We will do intensify our NEB however _ _ _ _ _ _ necessary exposure business