Posts by DATA-DOG

20

Thinking People vs.Non-Thinking People

by minimus in

jw
friends

most jws do not think.

they feel.

they are told a certain thing and they simply accept it or just don't care all that much what the real facts are.

DATA-DOG

Rip, I agree. It is not that they cannot feel or reason, it is just shut off. Check this quote from the Insight Book on Gossip.

"On the other hand, it is not gossip or slander and is not wrong to report conditions affecting a congregation to those having authority and responsibility to oversee and correct matters. This fact is demonstrated in the Scriptural record about the Christian congregation in ancient Corinth. There, dissensions and the paying of undue honor to men were creating sectarian attitudes, destroying the congregation's unity. Some members of the house of a certain Chloe who were aware of these things and were concerned about the congregation's spiritual welfare disclosed the fact to the absent apostle Paul, who acted quickly, writing corrective counsel to the congregation from Ephesus.".

So if you are a feeling person and want to help others, you will be moved to follow your conscience and report something that is harmful. Now just try to put this into practice concerning problems in the Organization. You will find yourself quickly demoted by un-feeling, and unreasonable people. They will feign affection, but as soon as you go in the back room and they say " Amen " the gloves come off, and the love disappears.

23

Devil's Advocate , A QUESTION FOR RECOVERY AND OTHERS.

by DATA-DOG in

i noticed recovery's post is on lock-down.

i have never seen that happen.

i want to play devils advocate and recovery can answer honestly.

DATA-DOG

Tammy,

I follow you. Sorry I did not understand you. I agree with what you said . I am glad I did not berate you publicly like others would have. LOL!!!

14

Recovery and Elephant

by tornapart in

jw
friends

would love to see them debating in a thread with each other.....

DATA-DOG

If Recovery and Elephant had a debate in a forest, and no one was around to hear them, would they still be wrong?!

23

Devil's Advocate , A QUESTION FOR RECOVERY AND OTHERS.

by DATA-DOG in

i noticed recovery's post is on lock-down.

i have never seen that happen.

i want to play devils advocate and recovery can answer honestly.

DATA-DOG

Recovery,

...you too possess our 'dogma'...

Everyone believes some " Dogma ", it doesn't matter if it is religious or scientific " dogma ". Information generally falls in to 3 categories:

1) Proven truth

2) false information

3) theories ( not yet proven to be true or false )

No human has the right to punish others or attack them personally because we don't fully agree with a theory. We are under no Biblical command to believe anything that in not true, or yet to be proven.

23

Devil's Advocate , A QUESTION FOR RECOVERY AND OTHERS.

by DATA-DOG in

i noticed recovery's post is on lock-down.

i have never seen that happen.

i want to play devils advocate and recovery can answer honestly.

DATA-DOG

Well Tammy, I have known people who were abused as children and as a result, repeated that behavior. Even so, I belive that it would be unkind and judgmental on my part to say that they were a monster who could never change and needed to be removed from society. I have first hand knowledge of such people within the congregation, and I have not revealed thier names to anyone because I honestly feel that they are not a danger. Since I have some information as a parent though, I can make an informed decision about wether or not my child goes to their house or in service with them. The point is at least now I have a choice. If you are not informed you have no choice. Also, I personally know these people, they are not an individual who has recently moved into the area from another congregation who everyone assumes is good company. Give me as a parent the information I need, and then I have a chance to decide to get to know this individual personally if I want. Then I can make an informed decision. I am not suggesting a witch-hunt. As far as things becoming public knowledge, that rests on the shoulders of each individual. If you are told something, you do not have to pass it on to someone else. That's why I said in my OP for the Elders to approach each individual Family with children. Then there is no need for Families to pass the information on to each other. If you believe the Elders are in a position of oversight, and they ask you not to pass on information then it's on you. You don't have to tell anyone because the Elders should be handling it already. I also highly doubt that the brothers and sisters kept secrets from each other in the 1st century congregation. They openly confessed to one another the problems they had, and were stronger for it. Also, if something very bad happens to a child, it will become public knowledge anyway, and if it does happen because Parents were not warned, don't blame it on God...

16

How Did God Communicate His 1914 Decision?

by Cold Steel in

is the organization a self-appointed group of people and is it any better or worse than the rest of christendom?

and why does it avoid the use of the term church?.

one fascinating thing is that the wbts has repeatedly published the claim that in 1914, jesus returned invisibly and inspected all the religions then on the earth.

DATA-DOG

Great Questions!!

As for the word " Church " or " congregation " that means ( according to scripture ) the Body of Christ. Those who have a heavenly calling, the one's who are spiritual stones in the spiritual temple of which Christ is the chief stone, are the " Church ". Since the WTBTS teaches that the Bible was written for anointed Christians, who are the " Church ", then the rank-and-file are not part of the " Church ". According to WTBTS teaching the rank-and-file are just fortunate to be associated with Christs brothers the Governing Body and those the represent ( in theory ) the rest ot the slave "class". Of course we do not know who those ones are, and they are not allowed to voice thier opinions or write articles for the rank-and-file. So you won't ever get much mention of the word " church " as far as it's scriptural meaning from the WTBTS because it opens too many subject up for investigation. For intance it was new light when Rutherford proved the door to heaven closed in 1935, of course we know that was not light at all or their would be no GB today. If that door didn't close.... uh oh!!! Partakers are on the rise! Now what?? Let's say they are mentally imbalanced, don't keep count of who partakes, make sure we have a 2 tiered anointed teaching. Remember if you claim to be anointed you are told that you do not have special insight on anything, you cannot know more than the Elders or some Mature publishers. Strangely enough once you become a Member of the GB that all changes and you are granted special insight in some unknown fashion that other anointed ones do not enjoy. If you are on the GB you are now a non-inspired, spirit-directed, although imperfect fallible human, who's council must be followed without question or you have rebelled against God and Christ. You have now become an idividual worthy of everlasting death. The " We are the Boss of you " system will not survive too much scrutiny, the true Identity of the " church " is just one subject that is left alone for the most part. Ask the average rank-and-file what the word church means, and they will say " congregation ". Ask them who the " congregation" is and they will say " we are " meaning the rank-and-file. They don't know the true meaning and that is how the GB wants to keep it. Apart from the occasional circular reasoning article about the subject, where the rank-and-file simply parrot what the article says, you won't find it considered too often.

79

Watchtower and Freemasonry

by mizpah2 in

thanks for the information, .

today by jws themselves and by the general public at large.. the repelling opposition and from mainstream christendom stems from ideologies created most likely from the freemason theologies.. the theological idea that one should congregate in worship in a place that replicates king solomon's temple as a truer.

emulation of where people should worship god (yahweh) as apposed to typically designed churches.. the probable reason also why worshiping centers for the jws are called kingdom halls and not churches.. when j rutherford broke away more less from the ibsa to create the jw organization, the remaining ibsa still used freemason halls to .

DATA-DOG

Elephant, Of course I am sure...aren't you? Sybolism can help us comprehend spiritual concepts. Think of the temple in Jerusalem, it was a representation of things to come. Now we should worship in spirit and truth, we don't need actual physical objects or buildings to make our worship acceptable. Spirit and Truth are the most important. You don't believe we need to go around making t-shirts and pins with a picture of Jesus and a sword coming out his mouth do you? Maybe a sword necklace as a conversation starter? How about " torture stake " earrings? Miniature Ark of the covenant paper weights, or Moses and Aaron salt and pepper shakers? Action figures for kids? The proceeds could go to the World Wide Work?

23

Devil's Advocate , A QUESTION FOR RECOVERY AND OTHERS.

by DATA-DOG in

i noticed recovery's post is on lock-down.

i have never seen that happen.

i want to play devils advocate and recovery can answer honestly.

DATA-DOG

Any Elders or former Elders out there who would like to comment? Here is the deal Recovery, The letter you quoted is carefully written. You will read it again you will notice that only the Elders are informed of offenders moving into the congregation. The S.O.P is to not inform the rank-and-file. Notice the carefully worded language used so that persons such as yourself can say " We inform the congregation...".

our policy is always to send a letter of introduction when a publisher moves to another congregation. It is imperative that this be done when one who is known to have been a child molester moves. The secretary should write on behalf of the elders to the new congregation's body of elders and outline this publisher's background and what the elders in the old congregation have been doing to assist him. Any needed cautions should be provided to the new congregation's body of elders.

Do you have children? I wonder? I am guessing that you do not. The Elder's should inform parents, but as you can clearly see there is no official direction to do so. The emphasis is on keeping everything on the down low, this is done for reasons of confidentiality and keeping peace in the Congregations. The most important reason for confidentiality is to protect the WTBTS from litigation. Part of the reason the Jury awarded damages to Candice Conti is no doubt due to the calloused above the law attituted on the part of the WTBTS. You display the same attitude on this forum. None of your comments toward Candice Conti were remotely Christian.

79

Watchtower and Freemasonry

by mizpah2 in

thanks for the information, .

today by jws themselves and by the general public at large.. the repelling opposition and from mainstream christendom stems from ideologies created most likely from the freemason theologies.. the theological idea that one should congregate in worship in a place that replicates king solomon's temple as a truer.

emulation of where people should worship god (yahweh) as apposed to typically designed churches.. the probable reason also why worshiping centers for the jws are called kingdom halls and not churches.. when j rutherford broke away more less from the ibsa to create the jw organization, the remaining ibsa still used freemason halls to .

DATA-DOG

@ Elephant ,

you could argue that ANY religion calling itself christian has similar 'origins'...

...in fact, all these examples of comparison only help to enhance Russell's argument in his favor...

...but first you must understand the origins of all this symbolism..

Your statement is true concerning man-made and False Religions, but does not hold true concerning Chist's teachings. If we follow Christ's counsel and believe his words at John 4:23,24 " Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.", then we avoid the whole issue at hand. Isn't it wonderful how simple all things become when we remove human wisdom and creeds and do not put are trust in men whose thoughts are as an exhalation? We just follow Christs clear, unambiguous teachings and everything works out for the best! Who would disagree with those words? We don't need any symbols at all to worship in spirit and truth!

19

Odd Thomas - Of Whom Shall I Be in Dread? - WT 7/15/12

by 00DAD in

no, this isn't about the dean koontz character odd thomas, but those books are a good read!

this is about another, different fictional character, albeit not quite so engaging as the one imagined by the very talented mr. koontz.

now i know mr. ot is described as being just "an unbaptized publisher", but in my decades of experience as a jw any and all "unbaptized publishers" here in sunny socal would be vetted enough to know better than to take a job at a school run by priests.

DATA-DOG

Right on perfect1 !! Way to follow the trail of minutea to the real story. No higher edumication ( I am not a fan of kids getting into debt, one must be shrewed furthering thier education ) mean less freedom in your life because your are limited by your skill set. When things are tough you can get a job with Brother Window-washer, or as I have often observed, snuggle up to the right brother and when he goes to serve abroad he will just give you all his accounts! No real skills needed except dependency and networking. So turn down that extra work that you really needed and suck up to Brother Janitorial Service, and whatever you do don't get Df'd or inactive because your next presentation will be, " Hi! Welcome to Big Burger! Can I interest you in a mega-meal deal today?".