Posts by jeremiah18:5-10

68

spirituality and religion - what are the differences?

by soft+gentle in

trying to understand the differences.

started this topic on the xjwsforchrist forum as well and would like to ask jwn posters the same question.

jeremiah18:5-10

I recently read on another site an illustration of the difference between the physical man and the spiritual man which may fit this. They illustrated it as a physical man focuses on the artwork, a spiritual man the artist, a physical man focuses on the building a spiritual man the builder.

" One thing we know about a spiritual examination is that it is different from a physical examination. In other words, whereas a physical examination requires the use of the five senses, a spiritual examination does not. A physical examination can only take you so far because it is dependent on there being tangible things to examine. A spiritual examination begins where a physical examination leaves off because it is not examining tangible things at all.

An illustration might better explain the difference. A physical examination looks at the art; a spiritual examination looks at the artist. A physical examination looks at the science; a spiritual examination looks at the scientist. A physical examination looks at the building; a spiritual examination looks at the builder. In each instance, the physical examination looks only to the results; whereas the spiritual examination looks to the source, the meaning, the value."

I don't know if that applies at all to your question, but it's an interesting musing nonetheless.

30

Why wasn't the Issue of Universal Sovereignty raised amongst the angels long before Adam and Eve

by yadda yadda 2 in

if there were millions of angels in existence long before adam and eve were created, how come god's sovereignty wasn't challenged in heaven long before the garden of eden?

why did this so-called issue only begin when adam and eve appeared?

how could there not be a single rebellious angel before the appearance of humans?

jeremiah18:5-10

I've pondered this topic for a while now. I could believe it did occur prior to Adam and Eve. I can't prove it scripturally of course. It seems to me that it would fit better with scripture though if it did happen that way and if earth and humans were specifically created as a "proving" ground to establish it. It could be that the "test" is to see if creatures that couldn't see God would choose to submit to Him. Then those who did could be "promoted" to heavenly life. The others, well, guess they're just SOL. Of course that doesn't mesh with the idea of Jehovah being a "God of Love". Of course why does that matter if life here was just to serve the sole purpose of resolving the issue. It would be consistent with "the earth not being created to totter". The earth would serve its purpose as a proving ground and then no need for it anymore. Kind of a morbid thought though and this has held me back from fully buying in to it.

86

A little example of how severely the contributions for the Society are drying up

by sir82 in

jw
friends

just a little tidbit from the congregation i attend..... the congregation has approximately 120 publishers.. well over 1000 magazines per month are picked up, not to mention all the books, brochures, and tracts that are picked up.. there was a "local needs" part on the service meeting recently, asking for more contributions.. it seems our congregation has averaged just about $300 per month contributions to the "worldwide work" over the past year.. .

assuming 1500 magazines / month, that's just 20 cents per magazine - and that completely ignores all other literature that is picked up.. the last price the magazines had, 20+ years ago, was 25 cents per issue.

with inflation that would have been about 50 cents each now.. just another sign of how severely the contriutions to the society are drying up..... .

jeremiah18:5-10

When I was in, the contributions for "Local Expenses" was usually twice as much as donations for the "Worldwide Work" donations to the "KH Fund" were always under $100 a month. About every 6 months the Local account would build up to a level that the body would make a motion to send a couple thousand to the WW Work. I didn't realize it then, but that seems to be a clear indication of the "friends" being de-sensitized to the "spirit-directed organization". Kinda funny really.

On a side note, in the area I lived there were about 10 KH's with about 20 cong's within a 30 mile radius. The CO came through and said the Society wanted us to poll our money together and help each other pay off their KH's. Our KH was paid for and he "suggested" that we settle on a dollar amount/publisher and contribute monthly toward paying off a neighboring KH. This ruffled feathers on the body to say the least. Of course that was only evident after the CO left. No elder spoke up during the meeting, only complained afterwards.

Shortly thereafter another 3-4 KH's were built in the area and the RBC was always coming around making plans for renovations, whatever they recommended was always done, with a loan from the WTS of course.

82

Is the Governing Body EVIL or IGNORANT?

by cedars in

some of you will have noticed that i've been paying a lot of attention to the governing body recently.

this is because most jehovah's witnesses venerate them collectively (even if they can't name them individually), and i feel this makes it important to understand this group of men properly and expose their mindset as individuals.

as the saying goes, i feel it's important to "know your enemy".. i realize it's very convenient to think of the governing body as being "evil" when we consider that they are ultimately responsible for all the damaging jw teachings and beliefs.

jeremiah18:5-10

Millions of JW's around the world are ignorant because of the staunch position and doctrine enforced by the GB.

Those serving on the GB no doubt were ignorant prior to their appointment. But once being appointed they no longer get the luxury of being ignorant. Now they are holding the lives of 7 million JW's and according to their doctrine, billions of lives in their hands.

Being the self-appointed sole channel of communication with God puts them in an obligatory position to thoroughly search the scriptures with humility and honesty. They should be praying incessantly to be guided by HS and then seeking to follow its leadings through the pages of the Bible to find answers. Anything short of that is EVIL on their part.

Their rigid steadfastness and loyalty to the "traditional" WTS doctrines and an unwillingness to search the scriptures with an open mind qualifies them as Evil not Ignorant.

They demonstrate the ability to search the scriptures and to comprehend them when it suits their purpose, thus they are not ignorant of how to do it. They are resistant to the idea that they could be wrong and might lose their authority and power if they admit to it.

Ignorance is the lack of knowing how to do something or having knowledge of a given matter. There is no way you can convince me that they are not exposed to other views, even the views on this sight. Instead they give no consideration to being fallible and again this makes them Evil.

1

ex-pro athletes=ex-jws

by jeremiah18:5-10 in

jw
friends

i listen to espn radio a lot (my job is a travelling job in my vehicle alot).

i was listening recently to the sportscasters talk about the struggle pro-athletes have adjusting after their playing days are over.

they go from millionaires to broke so quickly.

jeremiah18:5-10

I listen to espn radio a lot (my job is a travelling job in my vehicle alot). I was listening recently to the sportscasters talk about the struggle pro-athletes have adjusting after their playing days are over. They go from millionaires to broke so quickly. Why? Because most of them failed to plan for the future, adjust their lifestyles, or failed to have a marketable skill to use upon their exit. Thus many hold on as long as they can, scared to face the future beyond the field of play.

As an ex-jw myself, I can totally relate to this. I was rasied as a JW and upon being out of it, I've struggled to adjust socially and to reconcile long-held beliefs. Many of the same reasons apply.

Have you seen this to be true in your case?

4

some questions for current elders on this site- just curious

by jeremiah18:5-10 in

for those of you on this site that are still serving as elders, your life must be filled with inner conflict and anguish when serving in this capacity.

i'm curious about a few things if you wouldn't mind answering.. do you still have an "official position" like tmso, sec, coboe, wtc, so?.

do you still give pt's?.

jeremiah18:5-10

For those of you on this site that are still serving as elders, your life must be filled with inner conflict and anguish when serving in this capacity. I'm curious about a few things if you wouldn't mind answering.

Do you still have an "official position" like TMSO, Sec, CoBOE, WTC, SO?

Do you still give PT's?

Do you still give "meaty" parts on the meetings?

Do you still serve on JC's?

Do you do shepherding calls? (I realize this practice is probably a thing of the past nowadays- it was going out when I was still an elder)

Again, I'm just curious because as I've mentioned before, I was an elder for 5 years (1998-2003) and I was so "in" while serving, I can't imagine what it would be like to be in your shoes. I'm rather memerized by the thought of doing this.

If you would rather not reply on here, could you send me a PM?

Thanks for all you do and the info and maturity you lend to this site.

Sincerely,

Jeremiah

375

The Governing Body intends to announce significant changes in academic literature (DOCTRINES) - Brazil

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

dear randall.

good morning!.

here is the daniel of brazil (former bethel).. this week at the forum of former jehovah's witnesses had an interesting news!

jeremiah18:5-10

They are going to finally respond to Anointed JW.com's letters and officially announce that they are the FDS and acknowledge that the heavenly hope is the only true hope.

19

I have a question for any ex or current elder or co.

by blindnomore in

1 how long does the society keep records of publishers diciplinery actions at cong level and at the branch ?.

2 how would you respond to the society's claim that they are not responsible for the criminal actions of the rank and file?.

jeremiah18:5-10

Records are kept in the "Congregation Permanent File" thus the implication was to keep indefinitely, until the person passed away. I tried to find direction on how long to keep them but never could find direction in print when I served as Secretary. Therefore I never threw any of them away.

127

Introducing Mrs Cedars...

by cedars in

jw
friends

i just thought you should know that mrs cedars has finally taken the plunge and joined the forum.

she was able to log on for the first time yesterday.. though we both "awakened" at different stages, mrs cedars was very supportive and non-judgmental when i first began exploring my beliefs from a critical standpoint.

she is currently in the process of reading crisis of conscience and aquainting herself with some of the facts of witness history that were hitherto unknown.

jeremiah18:5-10

Welcome Mrs Cedars! Lots to learn, soak up, and share here. Hope you enjoy it as much as my wife and I have.

43

Will we ever see another Ray Franz?

by Emery in

jw
friends

will we ever see another governing body member leave the organization like ray franz did and speak out against them?.

one can only imagine the kind of dirt that's been concealed behind those gb sessions since the 1980's.. what are your thoughts?.

jeremiah18:5-10

In my opening post when joining this site, I mentioned how disappointing it is for one's to stay in the "truth" when they know it is not "truth" and pleaded with them to take a stand.

The responses I received were to the effect that I should be grateful for having one's still in to lurk and provide updates and info to sites like this. Also that I should realize that some are unable to leave at present due to family ties, etc.

How could anyone then fault or attack Ray Franz for remaining and attempting to make change from within for as long as possible. Even after his ouster, he said that he attempted just to comment on scriptures and to provide accurate understanding. He demonstrated through his actions (associating with DF'd person) that he didn't recognize the authority of the GB. He attempted to set an example in living by conscience instead of blind loyalty to an unfaithful and misguided organization.

I'm appalled to hear such criticism of him in light of the present view voiced on this site toward those still in. Be appreciative of the efforts he did make and cut him the same slack you do others today.

I imagine if RF would've had access to the all-powerful internet and sites like this, he would've been a major contributor.