Posts by jeremiah18:5-10

64

I'm new, please come and meet me!

by Julia Orwell in

jw
friends

long time lurker, first time poster.

i'm really glad i can join your community because i've been in the wts for the last 14 years and now i'm on my way out and it's great to meet like-minded people!.

about me: i started learning jw ways when i was in my teens.

jeremiah18:5-10

Welcome aboard. Its always good to have new member, especially one with a brain.

25

Didn't Jesus symbolically give a blood transfusion for all of mankind?

by yadda yadda 2 in

jesus poured out his life blood, his soul, on behalf of mankind.

the wine taken at the memorial of christ's death represents this life, given as a sacrifice to atone for adamic sins.

jesus said that unless you eat of his flesh and drink of his blood, you have no life in yourself.

I Got disfellowshiped..wana die!

by Chichi89 in

jw
friends

i jus got dissfellowshiped at th last week..i feel like dying..i attended th meetings yesterday and ita ws jus horrible..came back home in tears....... people i used to cal my friends nw cant look me in the eye..so heartbroken confused and giving up on life !.

jeremiah18:5-10

Chi Chi I haven't read the second page of comments but it sounds like the JW's is all you've ever known, that your entire life and self-worth is tied up with them.

Have you personally ever just read the scriptures with an open mind? Please make it a goal to begin asap. Read about Jesus treatment of people. Read about the message of forgiveness and acceptance it offers. Jesus message was of unconditional love.

vPlease evaluate how you personally feel about your actions. Make an effort to evaluate these actions outside of the "box" of just what you've been told by JW's. Try to determine if you arrive at the conclusion that you have sinned. Don't just base your opinions on just what the elders have told you.

Its important that you begin the process of learning how to think for yourself and how to develop your own ability to use your power of reason to know right and wrong, rather than being solely dependant on someone else (imperfect humans) telling you this. Also, you need to determine the level of faith you have in Jehovah as your God and whether you have a relationship with him personally. Its his opinion that matters, not the human interpretation of his opinion by people who can't read hearts.

Please strive to feel good about your decisions in life. Feel good about who you are and who you want to be. Set goals toachieve that you can feel proud of. Evaluate your strengths as a person and be around people who love you for being you. I'm mso sorry for your sadness.

27

Watch Tower Corporation Listed Top Forty Revenue-Generating Companies in New York City, Reporting an Annual Revenue of About 951 Million US Dollars

by frankiespeakin in

so are they a religious non profit corporation?

how is this dicotomy possible that they could generate such revenue and not make an accounting to irs?.

originally known as the peoples pulpit association, the organization was incorporated in 1909 when the society's principal offices moved to brooklyn, new york.

jeremiah18:5-10

Can you post the reference please? I would like to read it.

50

"Why Do Many Male Jehovah Witnesses Who Learn TTATT Grow Beards"?

by ÁrbolesdeArabia in

the year once 1983 and the brother who use to study the bible with me drove by and had a full on "charles manson" looking facial hair and beard.

i asked tina, a friend what's up with him?

tina was 19 and a hot red-head woman who was partially in the religion but had problems with fornication.

jeremiah18:5-10

My wife asked me to, loved it and it stayed.

12

Who is it really disciplining????

by jeremiah18:5-10 in

the wts sanctions the practice of shunning or disfellowshipping of unrepentant wrongdoers.

this practice cuts the person off from not only the congregation members, but also their still believing family.

the wts backs up their action by threatening the members (congregation and family) with being df'ed themselves if they choose to associate with the df'ed person.. the claim in part is that its an act of loving discipline that may move the wrongdoer to repentance and to return to the congregation and thus to jehovah.

jeremiah18:5-10

@ sir82

Curiously, if disfellowshipped JWs are honest and state those reasons as their motivation for wanting to return, they'll never be allowed to.

I.e., as a final indignity, disfellowshipped JWs must lie to the elders bout their reason for wanting to return, if they are to have any hope of actually doing so.

Personally, I don't think those who try to return would have to lie. I don't think they realize their motives are messed up. I believe they associate "returning to the congregation" with "returning to Jehovah" it's one and the same to them. Unfortunately it's not the same!!

I've attempted to return 3 times, and each time was for the above stated reasons, even though I didn't realize it, now I do. Even if I did make such a return successfully, I can't unlearn what I have discovered in my own Bible study and research from this site and others. I would be nothing but miserable. i would have to put on an act around friends and family and be untrue to myself. No way I'm ever going to live like that. Kudos to those who can!

12

Who is it really disciplining????

by jeremiah18:5-10 in

the wts sanctions the practice of shunning or disfellowshipping of unrepentant wrongdoers.

this practice cuts the person off from not only the congregation members, but also their still believing family.

the wts backs up their action by threatening the members (congregation and family) with being df'ed themselves if they choose to associate with the df'ed person.. the claim in part is that its an act of loving discipline that may move the wrongdoer to repentance and to return to the congregation and thus to jehovah.

jeremiah18:5-10

@sir82

Therefore, how satisfying and rewarding is it for an individual to betray their true self and convictions just to maintain relationships with individuals (friends or family) that we realize are obviously blinded and mentally captive and who are delusional in thinking that we are the ones that are "sick, misguided, and mislead"?

I realize that the ultimate desire of such ones whether DF'd or inactive or fading is that they will help their believing friends and family to escape in tact. Truly that is a noble endeavor and to be admired. But at what cost to you? What cost to your family that has left with you? I also realize this is a touchy subject and I'm in no way ridiculing those who make this difficult choice, I simply have a difficult time comprhending it anymore.

For me anyway, my personal integrity far outweighed any supposed, hoped-for accomplishment that I likely would never achieve by hanging on and staying in. Perhaps I'm selfish. Perhaps I'm just lucky because I escaped with my wife and kids, something many of you have not been able to do. I feel for you.

Still, I maintain that actually owning your convictions and living accordingly will not only result in a better, happier life for you, but will also be more likely to have a deep impact on the still-believing family members trapped inside. I believe this because what keeps them in more than anything is "who else would we go to?" or "where else would we go?" Whichever the WT question that they mis-quote is. Therefore I propose that by finding happiness and success outside of the WT and moving on actually shows them that there is somehwere to go and that there is happiness and satisfaction to be had in life outside of the WT. Who knows how powerful and impactful that could be in giving them the courage to wake up.

Thats my hope and belief anyway. I hope I'm not to naieve about this and I hope no one takes this position as being disrespectful toward those who stay in for the sake of family.

57

Did YOU Go A Bit Wild or Crazy When You Left The "Truth"?

by minimus in

jw
friends

just curious..

jeremiah18:5-10

Actually it happened before I "left the 'truth'", that's why I got DF'd- lol

12

Who is it really disciplining????

by jeremiah18:5-10 in

the wts sanctions the practice of shunning or disfellowshipping of unrepentant wrongdoers.

this practice cuts the person off from not only the congregation members, but also their still believing family.

the wts backs up their action by threatening the members (congregation and family) with being df'ed themselves if they choose to associate with the df'ed person.. the claim in part is that its an act of loving discipline that may move the wrongdoer to repentance and to return to the congregation and thus to jehovah.

jeremiah18:5-10

@ Phizzy

I think that living a happy life free of the WT speaks volumes, but is no gurantee it will free other JW's.

Is there any action that would guarantee freeing other JW's? I don't believe so.

The thing is all of the devout ones have a persecution complex and a cult-mind, any attempt to free their mind or to reason with them is met with thier pre-programmed response of intellectually shutting down, I used to be just like that. There's no desire to see the TTATT. Only the desire to stay in the "spiritual paradise".

I dare say the only way to ever reach one is to make life appear better on your side, not through words, but rather through actions. They have to develop the "crack" in their faith themselves. It has to occur naturally, it can't be forced.

12

Who is it really disciplining????

by jeremiah18:5-10 in

the wts sanctions the practice of shunning or disfellowshipping of unrepentant wrongdoers.

this practice cuts the person off from not only the congregation members, but also their still believing family.

the wts backs up their action by threatening the members (congregation and family) with being df'ed themselves if they choose to associate with the df'ed person.. the claim in part is that its an act of loving discipline that may move the wrongdoer to repentance and to return to the congregation and thus to jehovah.

jeremiah18:5-10

The WTS sanctions the practice of shunning or disfellowshipping of unrepentant wrongdoers. This practice cuts the person off from not only the congregation members, but also their still believing family. The WTS backs up their action by threatening the members (congregation and family) with being DF'ed themselves if they choose to associate with the DF'ed person.

The claim in part is that its an act of loving discipline that may move the wrongdoer to repentance and to return to the congregation and thus to Jehovah. Is this really so?

For this to be an effective act of loving discipline, it would require that the wrongdoer really wants to return, that perhaps they just need an attitude adjustment towards their wrongdoing. Perhaps that is what some JW's want and perhaps need. But even with these individuals would their return really be motivated out of a pure heart with a desire to return to Jehovah or rather motivated by other forces?

In most cases, those who return do so because of 3 reasons. 1.) Missing their family that has cut them off. 2.) missing the congregation members that have cut them off. or 3.) Not being able to function normally in society and thus needing the only social circle they've ever known.

For the most part, it is NOT due to some deep desire to return to Jehovah or the WT. **disclaimer- there are, I'm sure, isolated cases of individuals having such lofty, pure. albeit misguided motives.

What if the "wrongdoer" however is apathetic or very definitively doesn't want to return? What if they have no interest in living an immoral life or getting involved in politics or violence or any other "bad" conduct? Is such a person benefitted by this "loving discipline" at all?

It would seem obvious to me that any person that has decided to move on with their life, spirituality, and goals outside of the WT would not be benefitted EVER by this act of DFing. Instead, the only thing that comes from it is a complete and utter destruction of their family life, assuming they have family "still in".

The still-believing family then becomes the ONLY one being disciplined. The DFed person moves on and develops other friends, social and professional contacts and perhaps builds an emotional wall around the previous family relationships, turning off those feelings and emotions.

This is exactly where I'm at in my life. I have only my wife, kids, and one brother that I can "associate" with. My parents, my in laws and extended family, all of which are JW's, have nothing to do with me or my family (even though I'm the only one DF'ed).

What is the result? I have "cut them off" emotionally, not allowing them to hurt me. I have nothing invested in them anymore. They wield no power over me. Sure I would love to have some sort of a relationship (one that doesn't involve religion at all) but I have learned how to HAPPILY live without it.

The effect of this has been rather interesting. Over the last few weeks my parents have reached out to me. My dad called me over Christmas and in the course of our conversation, he asked if we were celebrating Christmas, he quickly said, it doesn't matter to me either way, just curious. I replied that I will not answer any questions of that nature or about my religious beliefs at all. I said that we talk so little I do not want what little time we get to be contentious. He paused and then said he agreed and that he too wanted to enjoy our brief association. He conveyed that he missed my children and hearing from us. A few days later my mom called my wife and had a similar discussion.

I have informed them that I have every intention of respecting their beliefs and faith as long as they will respect my right to having my own beliefs and faith. I also have stipulated that if you do not want your faith to be weakened due to association with me, then never bring up religious matters or beliefs. There are plenty of other things in life to discuss and enjoy without ever discussing religion.

I have not completely re-opened my heart or emotions at this point. I am going to move forward cautiously.

What I have determined is that, while I wish my parents and inlaws would learn the TTATT and leave the WTS, that it will never ever happen as a result of talking to them about anything religious or by trying to disprove their beliefs. All this does is bring up the cult-inculcated reaction of an apostate alarm. They immediately shut down any cognitive, critical thinking skills and immediately slide into defense mode. Regardless of what you say or how compelling it may be, all they hear is "I'm an apostate, I want to lead you away from Jehovah" all they see is "the Devil".

Therefore, I have decided the most effective way to defeat the DFing policy is by simply living a happy, successful, clean, moral life. By enjoying my children and their lives, and demonstrating that the WTS has NO CONTROL or INFLUENCE over me anymore. This drives them crazy and intrigues them. JW's are convinced that you cannot be happy outside of the organization. Happiness and success and having no "hard feelings" toward the WTS and the congregation, etc is the most powerful attack.

I am commited to this tactic and am hopeful that I will have success.

What are your thoughts? Have any had success with this tactic?