The repentance route is the safest and easiest to fake. This, in most cases, is what elders are hoping to find. The other two routes are a roll of the dice and depend heavily upon whether they have witnesses and/or the elders involved and how ballsy they are. Even if only one witness, they can move for df and force the person to choose whether to appeal or not. Then the appeal committee's bravery comes in to play. At that point a threat of legal action, if only one witness, could be effective.
jeremiah18:5-10
JoinedPosts by jeremiah18:5-10
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42
A question for elders and former elders who have served on JCs
by slimboyfat inbased on your experience of judicial committees, how would you advise someone who is due to meet with the elders and has asked for the best way to avoid being disfellowshipped?
is denying everything ever a successful strategy?
does addressing a letter to the elders threatening legal action if they disfellowship ever work?
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7/15 WT- Insane, Far Fetched, Narcissistic "New Light " about the FDS
by flipper ini know this article has been discussed, re-hashed upside down in past threads.
but there were at least 2 points i discovered in here that i felt were pertinent and important to bring out concerning the total control and narcissistic tendencies that these wt leaders possess on the governing body, i.e.
alleged " faithful slave " .
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jeremiah18:5-10
I agree with ctrwtf, they get around the sister thing by referring to a scripture that says there is neither male nor female in the kingdom of the heavens. Thus they boil it down to the person, and yet there is no soul that survives death?!?!
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In 12 Lines or Less: GIVE US YOUR AUTOBIOGRAPHY POETICALLY
by Terry inautobiography.
forever began at the day of my birth, but, it turns out that it was a lie,.
i am who i am when nobody's watching, then nothing is there to deny.. .
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jeremiah18:5-10
It wasn't by choice at the time that I left
My faith was taken as if by theft
An ambitious brother pursued my and took my peace
This led to my activity to pretty much cease.
The longer I was away the less I wanted to go
I began to question things, things i needed to know.
I started researching, I took to the bible to read
Slowly I saw real truth, I had planted a seed.
My eyes have opened and they can never be shut
Now I'm happy without an if, and or but.
I hope others can come to find what I have found
And break free from the falsehoods to which they are bound
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Is there a 'third' way to leave?
by Splash inonce baptised, apart from death there are really just two ways to leave the congregation: df or da.. but notice this quote:.
"does he really desire to disassociate himself, or does he simply no longer want to associate actively with the congregation?".
- shepherd the flock of god (2010) p. 111. .
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jeremiah18:5-10
Making known a firm decision to be known no longer as one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
If the individual is agreeable, the committee should first try to speak with him and provide spiritual assistance.
It is also of note that this is in a committee setting. Therefore I suspect this is a scenario where a person actually approaches the elders and states they don't want to be a jw any longer. The elders are then to form a committe and ascertain if its for one of the two reasons above. A committee can't or at least shouldn't be formed just because someone is going in active. Only if they have taken the next step and vocalized a desire not to be a jw. If in fact they then, during the hearing, say they are discouraged or depressed and just want to be left alone but don't voice a rejection of the organization, they would or should not be labeled apostate or as DA. I believe Splash is correct in this assessment.
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The real reason allegations of child abuse among JW's are not reported
by jeremiah18:5-10 inthis is my opinion, i don't have official quotes or official instructions to back this up.
what i have is real life experience of having been an elder that was involved in investigating an allegation of child abuse, why we didn't report, why we didn't encourage the parents to report.. its simple really, the main reason elders don't report is concern that they may lose their position in the congregation.
if you in any way "run ahead" of the society, you will be perceived as proud and arrogant and will be deleted!
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jeremiah18:5-10
I want to clarify, I wasn't and aren't anything special. I was completely caught up in the politics as much as anyone. I did and do have a heart though.
Sadly,I valued my privileges of highest esteem. I placed them at a higher value than my own wife and kids. I figured this was my career, I had very little materially and worked fast food or janitorial, whatever allowed me flexibility and more time for advancing my career. My wife was initially on board, up until we had children, then her priorities rightly changed, mine sadly did not. It wasn't until I lost these privileges that I recognized that my motives were impure. When I lost it all, I didn't find peace and happiness in serving as I could or having mire time with my family, I was bitter. Only since being dfd have I learned proper priorities and gained real satisfaction in life and in my family. For that I'm grateful to jws. I'm eternally grateful for my wife and her patience and wisdom. I wish more career elders would realize their lack of perspective, but sadly they won't until going down the same path. You're brought up to never say no, accept every privilege. Then they betray you.
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The real reason allegations of child abuse among JW's are not reported
by jeremiah18:5-10 inthis is my opinion, i don't have official quotes or official instructions to back this up.
what i have is real life experience of having been an elder that was involved in investigating an allegation of child abuse, why we didn't report, why we didn't encourage the parents to report.. its simple really, the main reason elders don't report is concern that they may lose their position in the congregation.
if you in any way "run ahead" of the society, you will be perceived as proud and arrogant and will be deleted!
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jeremiah18:5-10
Label licker I've replied to your PM.
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The real reason allegations of child abuse among JW's are not reported
by jeremiah18:5-10 inthis is my opinion, i don't have official quotes or official instructions to back this up.
what i have is real life experience of having been an elder that was involved in investigating an allegation of child abuse, why we didn't report, why we didn't encourage the parents to report.. its simple really, the main reason elders don't report is concern that they may lose their position in the congregation.
if you in any way "run ahead" of the society, you will be perceived as proud and arrogant and will be deleted!
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jeremiah18:5-10
Farkel
YeahI thought about that wording in the title after I posted. You're right, I really should have posted "my opinion why....." Sorry to mislead you, it wasn't intentional.i
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The real reason allegations of child abuse among JW's are not reported
by jeremiah18:5-10 inthis is my opinion, i don't have official quotes or official instructions to back this up.
what i have is real life experience of having been an elder that was involved in investigating an allegation of child abuse, why we didn't report, why we didn't encourage the parents to report.. its simple really, the main reason elders don't report is concern that they may lose their position in the congregation.
if you in any way "run ahead" of the society, you will be perceived as proud and arrogant and will be deleted!
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jeremiah18:5-10
This is my opinion, I don't have official quotes or official instructions to back this up. What I have is real life experience of having been an elder that was involved in investigating an allegation of child abuse, why we didn't report, why we didn't encourage the parents to report.
Its simple really, the main reason elders don't report is concern that they may lose their position in the congregation. If you in any way "run ahead" of the society, you will be perceived as proud and arrogant and WILL BE DELETED! The same reason exists for parents of the child, if they report, they are uncovering the sins of their brother and disregarding the authority of the congregation.
It doesn't have to do with a two witness rule, although this is a factor in covering your ass (position). The only reason even close to being noble is what if the allegation is false and not wanting to heap false accusations on a brother. Once again, as is common in WT land, the consciences of the weak dominate that of the many. The overriding philosophy is, the strong can handle being done wrong, the weak can't.
The matter I was a part of investigating involved a 13-14 yo teen boy (babtized) that had been babysitting another couple's children. The little girl involved was 2-3. The mother, when giving her a bath, noticed sensitivity, redness, and aggravation around the girls privates. The parents began to search their minds as to what may have happened. The only conclusion they could arrive at was this young boy. They approached us, we formed a committe and investigated. The young boy denied having done anything inappropriate, although with time, he conjectured, "well maybe this could've happened or that couldve happened, but by accident....I noticed her playing with a toy in the bath in that area, maybe that as it."
We called bethel as directed, we were told thereas nothing we could do but give stern counsel and warning. Also were instructed to hive stern counsel and warning to the parents of the girl not to divulge this info or risk being accused of slander. To trust the "slave" direction and holy spirit and to sue for peace.
This really left mefeeling conflicted and empty inside. After the closing of the committee investigation, I privately approached the parents and encouraged them to consider going to the authorities for a more professional opinion and investigation. I was very apprehensive to do so, I knew that if the parents were at all offended by my notion of contradicting the directioi from the slave, that I would definitely lose my position as an elder. This weighed heavily on me, in fact I'm ashamed to say it weighed almost as heavily as the well-being of that girl and her parents.
Idon't know absolutely if the boy was guilty of anything. But that's the point, I wasn't really qualified to ascertain that. Those involved seemed content with the outcome, which made all of us elders breathe a sigh of relief. The thing is, was the little girl satisfied? Will she have long reaching effects from this? That thought wasn't really considered.I'm mashamed to have been a part of this whole sham of an investigation. The whole objective was to keep peace, to save face, and to keep our positions. We were not a shelter from the wind. Those parents chose not to go to the police, they did get counseling, as did the boy.
personally believe that my experience is not unique and that the factors listed are the overriding and dominant factors considered in every case. There isn't any real concern for victims or their ffamilies. Only keep peace, don't offend the weak, don't soil gods name, and by all means keep our position as elders.
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always apostasy?
by losingit inso i've been reading many posts and threads of people's experiences leaving the jw fold.
i get the impression that many here were df'd or da'd due to apostasy.
is there anyone here that found out ttat after being df'd for a reason other than apostasy?
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jeremiah18:5-10
I was df'd for reasons other than apostasy. I continued for 4 years efforting to return. I concluded I was only doing so for family reasons. I determined the only way I could really do it properly was to be drawn by Jehovah. So I started reading the bible, the Christian scriptures specifically. I used the amplified version along with NWT. My eyes were opened as I read. I avoided using WT literature and dismissed preconceived beliefs. It was thru this that I learned ttatt. I never read any apostate literature or websites to that point, only gods word with an open mind. Now here I am, never to return to WT. Apostacy had nothing to do with it.
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jeremiah18:5-10
In the interest of sticking to the facts, TM was 5'11