good morning.
want to attend?.
kingdom ministry school.
What right do they have to judge anyone? Who gives them the authority? Only the JWs who play their little game.
If I am ever called on the carpet under charges of apostasy, I dont know whether or not to feed into their little game. They have no power other than the power people allow them to have.
joseph was a young handsome and good -looking.. he wasn,t married, his boss wife is all over him.. each day, joseph please lie with me.. ok here is the wife of the boss, you dam if.
do and dam if you don,t.
we know what happen.
I didnt mean to say that singles could "hook up" with impunity, but that men were not held to the same standard of fidelity as we know it today.
good morning.
want to attend?.
kingdom ministry school.
Ray Franz in his seminal work "Crisis of Conscience" remarked that the vast majority of time spent in the GB room was spent on DF issues/ what is, isnt, should be, etc. I guess not much has changed. They are obsessed with cutting people off from loved ones. Sick bastards arent they?
i was just pondering on this matter.
jws pride themselves on being loyal and obedient to the gb "even when it makes no sense from a human standpoint".
what they fail to realize is that obedience is conditional.
I was just pondering on this matter. JWs pride themselves on being loyal and obedient to the GB "even when it makes no sense from a human standpoint". What they fail to realize is that obedience is conditional.
Even a childs obedience to the parent is conditional. Ordinarily a child should obey thir parent. However If the parent tells them to steal from the neighbors, or submit to some sexual perversion they would be morally right to disobey.
If a military officer commands a soldier to slaughter innocent children, he would be morally obligated to disobey the order. The Nuremberg trials prove that everyone is responsible for their actions and "just following orders" is not a valid excuse.
When Aaron commanded the people to tear off their gold and worship the golden calf, were they obligated to obey? No for those who followed along were killed as a result.
When the corrupt preisthood in Israel commanded parents to sacrifice their children to Molech, should they have complied because Jehovahs organization told them to??
Obedience is conditional and I wish more could understand that.
joseph was a young handsome and good -looking.. he wasn,t married, his boss wife is all over him.. each day, joseph please lie with me.. ok here is the wife of the boss, you dam if.
do and dam if you don,t.
we know what happen.
Its all in the Mosaic law. If a married man had sex with an unmarried woman, the worst that would happen if caught would be that he would have to marry her too. Today if a married man has sex with a unmarried woman it is viewed as adultery. This was not the case in the bible, and is not scriptural. I believe that the sexual laws of the OT were more about property rights than what christians today view as morality. The ONLY way a man could commit adultery was if he had sex with a married woman because he would be infrignging on another mans valuable property. If you had sex with a virgin and got caught, you would have to pay the father because again, you infringed on his property. Adultery only worked one way in the OT, if a married woman went outside the arrangement. A man could have sex with as many wives, concubines, and slaves as he could afford. Marriage was viewed much differently then than now, and even today what marriage is varies from place to place. To add another wrinkle into the conversation, if a man had sex with an engaged free woman, they were both punished with death, however if a man had sex with a engaged slave, he would merely have to make a sacrifice,because she was not free. Again if sexual morals were the issue what difference would it make if you were free of slave?
The idea of porneia was not introduced until the NT. Even Jesus did not mention a wife being able to divorce her husband, only a husband his wife. Keep in mind I do not agree with this thinking, I am just seeing the bible for what it is, not what people want it to be. Even the NT does NOT prohibit taking more than one wife. Polygamy is now considered adulterous by JWs and most Bible believers, however that is NOT what the bible teaches. Being husband of one wife was listed as a SPECIAL requirement for appointed men. If this was a requirement for all, it would not need repeating that it is a special requirement. It would be like today the qualifications to be a Elder being that you cannot smoke or gamble. Since no one can, it would be redundant to list it again.
It is distasteful to modern sensibilities, but in the Bible, a man was not held to the same moral standard as a woman the way they are today in the western world. Many try to gloss this over but no one really knows what the word "porneia" really meant. The WT has went from gay sex and bestiality not being porneia, to now where everything is included down to lap dances. They change the definition to say what they want it to say. This is the problem with trying to superimpose bronze age morality on Victorian puritanical morality, or in other cases modern morality.
joseph was a young handsome and good -looking.. he wasn,t married, his boss wife is all over him.. each day, joseph please lie with me.. ok here is the wife of the boss, you dam if.
do and dam if you don,t.
we know what happen.
The WT assumes that Joseph was not shagging the other servants. There was never a law against a single man having sex with slaves. The account specificalls says that Joseph told Potiphars wife "my master has not witheld ANYTHING from me EXCEPT you" that tells me that he was having sex with whoever else, remember there was not then, nor under the future mosaic law anything prohibiting a married or unmarried man from shagging an unmarried woman. I see no reason to believe Joseph abstained from sexual pleasures. There is certainly nothing in the story indicating he did. Male virginity was not prized in that time or location. He simply did not want to get involved with his bosses wife, probably for several reasons.
i'm fed up of my still-in wife using this excuse that they can utter wrong beliefs and doctrines.. .
the fact that there are imperfect humans involved in the organisation is very much irrelevant.. .
we all accept, including jdubs, that these men are just men who may think and say wrong things like the rest of us as they go about their own lives.
If someone says, "they are imperfect and make mistakes, but they are who Jehovah is using" you could say "Aaron was who Jehovah was using when he built a golden calf. Would you have bowed down to it and worship it because he told you to?" or "The priesthood in Israel was who Jehovah was using, yet they set up false gods. Would you have been obedient to them because they were the channel? Or are you responsible for your own actions?"
ok so... when i was talking to my mil about why i no longer wanted to be a witness she kept trying to convience me that i needed to speak to the elders.
i said from the word go i didn't feel the need to as my mind was already made up and no one could change it.
i also said if the elders new all my reasons for leaving they would view me as an apostate and i would get disfellowshipped.
Daniel1555- You got lucky because as I understand it, all it takes to be apostate is that you BELIEVE anything different than what the GB teaches. Sharing with others is not required. Maybe they didnt have the heart to DF you because you share a different point of view.
i literally just sat there with my mouth open.
sometimes the delusional mind of jws takes steroids.. it was during the draw close to jehovah study where they praise the mosaic law and how perfectly wonderful it was.
you should have seen the almost giddy attitude the conductor had and the comments from the audience.
Great points OTWO! If its ok to slaughter everyone from fetuses to the elderly because they are "pagan" why should they care about say..for just one example the genocide in Darfur which mostly "pagan" animist and "so-called" Christians were killed my Muslims? They were merely doing some of the dirty work for Jehovah. Since he "does not desire any to be destroyed", they make his task a bit easier at Armageddon.
It especially sickens me when the JWs or other christian apologists compare the cannanites to vermin. Every barbaric mass genocide has been preceded by propaganda comparing the victims to sub-humans like rats, cockroaches, diseases, cancers, or mad dogs that need to be put down. The same reasoning for killing the kids, that "little rats grow into big rats" is the same reason Hitler killed even the Jewish kids. They would grow into big Jews one day and steal all the money again. For non-psycopathic humans to be able to callously slaughter innocent people they generally need to internalize that their victims "deserve" to die, or are a "threat" of some kind. They must also be viewed as a plauge like pests that need to be "cleansed". Bible apologists scare me.
i literally just sat there with my mouth open.
sometimes the delusional mind of jws takes steroids.. it was during the draw close to jehovah study where they praise the mosaic law and how perfectly wonderful it was.
you should have seen the almost giddy attitude the conductor had and the comments from the audience.
It is amazing how just when you think you have heard it all, something even more shocking and delusional is said!
