Splash

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Posts by Splash

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  21

  TTATT in a Can... Now on Google Sites

  by ILoveTTATT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i found a way to get the entire spreadsheet into google so that people can take a look at it.... i also made a spreadsheet that shows the doctrines with most # of changes, ranked from most to least:.

  https://sites.google.com/site/laverdadtj2/number-of-changes.

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  Splash

  It's protected and requires me to submit a request to view it.

  I shall not be doing that.

  Splash.
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  56

  My JW mom is now willing to "listen" to our side...Need advice pls

  by 2pink in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my husband and i (both born in jws with extended family all "in" except for one of my sisters who left when we did) left the church 5 years ago.

  we did not fade, we just didn't believe it anymore, told our families so and left.

  obviously, big drama in our family after this, messy feelings, etc.

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  Splash

  And be prepared for all of the stock responses:

  "Even the Apostles made mistakes"

  It is true that the Apostles sometimes made mistakes. Does that mean that it is ok to make mistakes? No.
  Is it also okay for other religious leaders to make mistakes, since the apostles made mistakes? No.
  And Harold Camping getting the dates wrong for the end of the world in 2012, is that also ok? No.
  It is fallacious to think that an act is acceptable just because someone else engaged in it.

  The point is, that since a JW accepts that the Bible is infallible (w10 9/1 p.12), they also accept that the apostles did not make mistakes when putting doctrine into writing. It is impossible for God to lie.

  "The Truth doesn't change, only our understanding of it changes"

  The Truth isn't being called into question, it's why we are not teaching the truth that is.
  Is it acceptable that our teachings of the Truth are not the truth?
  If our teachings are from Jehovah, why are they different to what is actually the Truth?
  Is this a valid statement for when Churches change their teachings too?
  The congregations are told that we are given food at the proper time. What is proper about serving spiritual food that is not truthful?

  "It's better to make mistakes and stay on the Watch, than fall asleep"

  Actually it's better to stay on the watch and not keep raising false alarms which can be just as dangerous as falling asleep, as made famous by Aesop's Fable of the Boy who Cried 'Wolf!':

  *** g93 3/22 p. 3 Why So Many False Alarms? ***
  THE story is told of a boy who watched the sheep of the villagers. To stir up a bit of excitement, one day he cried out, "Wolf! Wolf!" when there was no wolf... So it has become with those who proclaim the end of the world. Down through the centuries since Jesus’ day, so many unfulfilled predictions have been made that many no longer take them seriously.

  Does the failure of such predictions to come true convict as false prophets those who made them, within the meaning of Deuteronomy 18:20-22?

  We have been on the watch for over a century. A real Watch has many shifts so the watchmen do not fall asleep or make bad judgement calls from tiredness and false expectations.
  What would you do with a smoke detector that constantly gives off false alarms?
  What would you do with an unreliable Watchman? What did the Israelites do?
  Is it correct to 'stone' (penalise / disfellowship) those who expose the false alarms?

  "We need to rely on the Slave for our understanding"

  Does that mean we must not look into things for ourselves?:
  "Do not put YOUR trust in nobles" - Psalm 146:3
  "when he entered the house Jesus got ahead of him by saying: "What do you think, Simon?" -Mt 17:25
  Jesus asking them "What do YOU think?" - Matthew 18:12; 21:28
  "Now the latter were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·ni′ca, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures" (Ac 17:11)
  "keep testing whether you are in the faith " 2Co 13:5
  "present your bodies...a sacred service with your power of reason" Ro 12:1
  "think so as to have a sound mind" - Romans 12:3
  "go on perceiving what the will of Jehovah is" Eph 5:17
  "make sure of the more important things" Php 1:10
  "make sure of all things" 1Thes 5:21
  "we request of YOU not to be quickly shaken from YOUR reason nor to be excited either through an inspired expression or through a verbal message or through a letter as though from us" 2Th 2:1, 2
  "God gave us not a spirit of cowardice, but that of power and of love and of soundness of mind." 2Tim 1:7
  "I am arousing YOUR clear thinking faculties by way of a reminder" 2Pe 3:1
  "test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God" 1Jo 4:1
  "he has given us intellectual capacity that we may gain the knowledge of the true one" 1Jo 5:20

  "Those references you are using are old!"

  All of these WT references are from Jehovah's channel - do you believe the FDS are Jehovah's channel? If so why would you dismiss something as old? The Bible is old, do we dismiss that?
  One day in the future, today's teachings will be old. Will you one day dismiss these the same way as you are dismissing the other 'old' teachings? If so, why not just dismiss them right now?
  The Society will themselves often refer to early WT references such as these. Do we dismiss those also?

  "Wait on Jehovah"

  'Wait on Jehovah' is an excuse for inaction, or to avoid discussing something. It's an attempt at ending the conversation.
  Typically it is used when the credibility of the Watchtower Organization or the leader’s authority is in question.
  When some completely incomprehensible new understanding (which is going to be changed in the next Watchtower) is published and people express their concern, they are asked to "wait on Jehovah". What they are being told to do, in fact, is stop thinking and stop asking questions that cannot be answered.

  The Society take action when they need to, like going to court. Are they waiting on Jehovah?
  Wait on Jehovah often really means Wait on the Society.
  What is the difference between "obey without questioning", and "Wait on Jehovah"?
  When someone says "wait on Jehovah", what they really mean is "wait on the GB", forgetting that Jehovah and the GB are quite different.

  Splash
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  56

  My JW mom is now willing to "listen" to our side...Need advice pls

  by 2pink in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my husband and i (both born in jws with extended family all "in" except for one of my sisters who left when we did) left the church 5 years ago.

  we did not fade, we just didn't believe it anymore, told our families so and left.

  obviously, big drama in our family after this, messy feelings, etc.

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  Splash

  Your mum must be uncomfortable about something. You should find out what this is.
  Tell her that the religion as it exists today is not the same one she was baptised into, because there have been so many changes. Even the ministry has changed from teaching people about God, to advertising a website.
  (For a list of changes either look here on jw.net, or here on jw.org)

  The WT have condemned themselves:
  -- WT 5/15/76 p.298 "It is a serious matter to represent God and Christ in one way, then find that our understanding of the major teachings and fundamental doctrines of the Scriptures was in error, and then after that, to go back to the very doctrines that, by years of study, we had thoroughly determined to be in error. Christians cannot be vacillating - 'wishy-washy' - about such fundamental teachings. What confidence can one put in the sincerity or judgment of such persons?"

  They claim to be the mouthpiece and channel of God providing food at the proper time. What is proper about serving such bad food that they have to keep removing items off the menu?.

  One example is how the decreasing number of memorial partakers was proof that we are close to the end. Now the numbers have climbed higher than at any time since 1960, so what does that do to their 'proof'?

  If you don't want to focus on one topic, you can ask your mum to give you one teaching that has never changed, just to emphasize that they are all under constant change. If she says hell fire, immortality of the soul, paradise earth, or the trinity have never changed, tell her that these teachings were established before the F&DS were appointed in 1919, then correct your question to "What teachings from the F&DS (since 1919) have never changed, since only the F&DS are approved by Christ?"
  There are none.

  As the first WT quote I pasted says, How can you have confidence in that?

  Splash
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  8

  Our Kingdom Ministry November 2014 PDF

  by WatchTower87 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  our kingdom ministry november 2014 pdf.

  instruction: press the 'skip ad' button top right, you should then see the download screen more easily.

  no virus ;-).

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  Splash

  Sorry George, my mistake. I didn't read the subject properly.

  Splash
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  8

  Our Kingdom Ministry November 2014 PDF

  by WatchTower87 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  our kingdom ministry november 2014 pdf.

  instruction: press the 'skip ad' button top right, you should then see the download screen more easily.

  no virus ;-).

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  Splash

  It's been up on the public bit for almost a week now.

  Unfortunately they only put up the US one, not the UK one.

  Splash
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  45

  Lying about Shunning! jw.org conceals the "truth"

  by Skinnedsheep in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/shunning/ .

  "those who were baptized as jehovahs witnesses but no longer preach to others, perhaps even drifting away from association with fellow believers, are not shunned.

  in fact, we reach out to them and try to rekindle their spiritual interest.".

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  Splash

  Space Madness "We do not automatically disfellowship someone who commits a serious sin. If, however, a baptized Witness makes a practice of breaking the Bible’s moral code and does not repent, he or she will be shunned or disfellowshipped."

  This means that if you repent you will not get disfellowshiped.

  In the real world, even if you do repent, the elders may still disfellowship you. It is their call, you are at the mercy of men.

  Therefore the quote you supplied is false, untrue and misleading.

  Splash.
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  83

  PART TWO of AN IMPORTANT MESSAGE BY A PRACTICING JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

  by Sparks in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  while you are sitting there reading this, there are literally hundreds of thousands of young males and females all over the world [ mostly in america / canada and england] sitting in their grotty little smelly bedrooms or flats, designing computer viruses that they will up-load onto web-sites to cause anonymous innocent peoples computers to malfunction.

  these creeps spend literally weeks,months or even years hoping to make a computer viruses that will get into peoples computer bios to completely destroy their computers.

  they never see the peoples anger, frustration and distress.... the damage can cost each person about 1,000 [ $1,660.74 ] or more to replace a basic new laptop or tower.

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  Splash

  Sparks: The apostate Terrorists on this web-site often succeed in either making Jehovah's witnesses doubt the Faithful and Discrete Slave's teachings or they manage to get a brother or sister to believe their twisted lies. This is done in several cunning ways; either by stating The Faithful and Discrete Slave keeps changing it's doctrines...

  The more you post, the more you expose your own leaders as being indecisive blind guides!

  The undisputable, incontrovertible, 100% provable fact is, the F&DS DO keep changing their doctrines!

  The F&DS even admit as much! They take pride in it! Since they admit it, why can't you accept it? We know you are having a hard time defending teachings that are built on sand, but please try to leave yourself with a little bit of credibilty.

  The simplest thing in the world is to prove you are as blinded as they are.
  By your desperate name calling and tenuous defense of the WT you are wilfully ignoring demonstrable reality.
  Hoping and saying that the WT are right does not make them so. Their recorded actions and written history prove otherwise. Fact.

  The F&DS are your Gods. They have become "Jehovah". You close your eyes to the obvious and berate those who refuse to do the same.

  Stick your fingers in your ears and go and do your raindance somewhere else where the natives appreciate your rejection of truthful facts, and where you can indulge yourselves in the deceptions you so obviously love to love.

  Fancy trying to defend this indefensible statement!
  Silly, silly Sparks!

  Splash.
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  7

  "Tatian—JW Apologist or a Heretic Witness?"

  by opusdei1972 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in the year 2003 (w03 5/15 pp.

  27-29) the watchtower analyzed the heretical views of tatian, a christian of the second century, in an article entitled "tatianapologist or heretic?".

  let's read some portions:.

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  Splash

  Tatian turned apostate. Therefore he gains the usual label from the WT of being mentally diseased

  *** w03 5/15 p. 29 Tatian—Apologist or Heretic? ***
  Why did Tatian deviate so far from the Scriptures? Did he become “a forgetful hearer”? (James 1:23-25) Did Tatian fail to turn down false stories and thereby fall prey to human philosophy? (Colossians 2:8; 1 Timothy 4:7) Since the errors he subscribed to were so great, could some mental aberration be suspected?

  Splash
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  7

  Should I take the train?!

  by DeWandelaar in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there are times like this moment i think of taking a train to my final destination.

  i know i have some unfinished business ( got a wife and kids though jw), but i am really done with it.

  i hate my life.

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  Splash

  Life is a journey with ups and downs.

  When you're down you can't see there will ever be an up again, but when that up comes you see things in much better perspective.

  When we stop and think, often there are many things we enjoy and can be grateful for, and these things help us persevere when the going is difficult.

  LisaRose is right, there are people we can reach out to when things seem to be too hard and they can support us through the worst of times.

  Don't try to tackle this alone if you things are getting too hard.

  Splash
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  140

  How do we set up a "Used New Bike Fund" for Terry?

  by BucketShopBill in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is there any way we can try to start a crowd-fund to help terry get some wheels quicker than he currently can?

  with craigslist and a couple of bucks from a few members we can help terry get moving.

  does anyone have any ideas how we can do a "theists for terry" bike fund raiser and challenge the atheists to a bucket-head challenge?

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  Splash

  Bumping