it was so funny!.
the small rented hall our congregation uses had a blackout.
we think there was some construction work next door that caused it.. at least the glow of everyone's tablets and cell phones kept the place illuminated!.
We had a local resident inconsiderately park their car outside our kingdom hall gates, bearing in mind the hall is in a residential street where no one has a driveway, so they all have to park in the street and it gets busy.
Inside the hall the old sisters were going around proclaiming 'persecution' and hatred for God's people.
I explained that it's never happened before in over 40 years, so that person probably just made a mistake.
Fear is ever present with them.
i just started reading the transcript from a 2013 hearing the australian government had with the branch coordinator and their attorney and man the lies just on the first page:;the chair my question is: does the church maintain records on the number, nature and extent as well.
mr t. obrien yes, they do.. .
i'll post more when i can satan is messing with my computer,lol .
This is a slippery discussion.
Mr D. O’BRIEN — Just a final question on the process. You mentioned the family a lot. What is the situation in relation to what I might call whistleblowers or people who wish to report on any deficiencies or systemic practices in your church, including people who wish to depart from the church? How are they treated?
Mr T. O’BRIEN — People are free to be Jehovah’s Witnesses, or if at any time they wish to discontinue for whatever reason, that is a personal choice. If the person simply decides to become inactive and no longer associate with Jehovah’s Witnesses, then they are just viewed as they were before they became one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. But if somebody is, what we refer to as being disfellowshipped, or if they disassociate themselves because of whatever reason — their activity, their disagreement with scripture or whatever the case — that puts them in a situation that the scripture has outlined where we would disassociate with them and they would come into the category of what we refer to as ‘disfellowshipped’ or ‘disassociated’. But they are free to believe whatever they like. If they want to challenge the teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses, there are plenty who do. You only have to browse the internet to see that. People are free to express themselves against any religion or any organisation.
Mr D. O’BRIEN — Would that include criticism of some of these practices, perhaps relying on the Shepherding textbook at that point? Is that the sort of thing that you would encourage people to make internally, or is that something that could be grounds for disfellowship?
Mr T. O’BRIEN — People can come and question teachings or procedures. They are quite at liberty to approach the elders to talk about that.
Mr D O’BRIEN — Sorry to interrupt, but I am conscious of getting to the point. Are they able to make public statements criticising the practices and, in a sense, the democratisation of the rules and practices of your religion?
Mr T. O’BRIEN — People do; they are entitled to do that. That does not mean that we will become a democracy because some individuals do not like it. They are free to come and go, as we all are.
Mr D. O’BRIEN — Can that be grounds for disfellowship if they are seen to criticise the practice for some reason? It is a whistleblowing activity I am particularly directing my attention to.
Mr T. O’BRIEN — If it was teaching against scripture, then that would be a basis for disfellowshipping, but it would not necessarily be disfellowshipping — that would be their decision. They would be disassociating themselves from the organisation of Jehovah’s Witnesses because they no longer agreed with the teachings.
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/is-watchtower-imploding-10-reasons-why-the-end-could-be-nigh.
i dont know how to hyperlink the link above,.
it's a link to an article by cedars on the possibility of the wt imploding?.
My Name Has the org ever admitted to being wrong on anything?
The Watchtower of March 15, 1980, in the study article "Choosing the Best Way of Life," offered the following comments regarding any 1975 expectations promoted by the 'Life Everlasting' book:
4 If we remain faithful, God will not let us make ruinous mistakes. But sometimes he permits us to be in error so that we may see our need to look always to him and his Word. This strengthens our relationship with him and our endurance while waiting. We learn from our mistakes that it is necessary to be more careful in the future. The desire for the new system of things to take complete charge of the earth has always been very strong in Christians down through the centuries. And because of their own short life-span, they doubtless longed for it to come in their particular lifetime. Those who have tried to keep God’s judgment time “close in mind” have, on more than one occasion throughout history, become overly eager for that day’s arrival, in their own minds trying to rush the arrival of the desired events. (2 Pet. 3:12) In the first century, for example, the apostle Paul found it necessary to write to Christians in Thessalonica in this fashion, as we read at 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3: “However, brothers, respecting the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we request of you not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be excited either through an inspired expression or through a verbal message or through a letter as though from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here. Let no one seduce you in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.”
5 In modern times such eagerness, commendable in itself, has led to attempts at setting dates for the desired liberation from the suffering and troubles that are the lot of persons throughout the earth. With the appearance of the book Life Everlasting—in Freedom of the Sons of God, and its comments as to how appropriate it would be for the millennial reign of Christ to parallel the seventh millennium of man’s existence, considerable expectation was aroused regarding the year 1975. There were statements made then, and thereafter, stressing that this was only a possibility. Unfortunately, however, along with such cautionary information, there were other statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year was more of a probability than a mere possibility. It is to be regretted that these latter statements apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of the expectation already initiated.
6 In its issue of July 15, 1976, The Watchtower, commenting on the inadvisability of setting our sights on a certain date, stated: “If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises.” In saying “anyone” The Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah’s Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date. ―w80 3/15 pp. 17-18 pars. 4-7 Choosing the Best Way of Life.
hi folks... i was playing a tiny online ipad multiplayer war game last night and one started a dialogue with a another player i was attacking.
in it he quoted a scripture.. and it turns out he he is a 25 year serving jw.
possibly an elder... well.. i spent 6 hours tapping away with one finger in the chat box until 8am this morning with him about all the issues on sex abuse, the money grab and most importantly the subject of jesus turning his attention to the earth and selecting the then bibles students as his one and only people based on what they were teaching (spiritual food) back then.. he knows nothing about any of the current and historic child sex abuse cases (never heard of candice conti etc) and even less about the insane early teachings or russell etc.. i completely blew his mind in our 6 hour text chat not to mention my index finger nearly falling off!.
In 1919 they were still celebrating birthdays and Christmas, had a masonic crucifix on the magazines, called the apostles "saints" and Adam "the first Pharaoh". Both Russell and Rutherford went to their graves teaching that the Bridegroom had already come in 1874 and made king in 1878, so neither were in expectation of him in 1914 and therefore could not have been "happy" if "on arriving he found them watching for his return."
They believed strongly in occult Pyramidology, said Tartarus was the Earth's atmosphere, taught Jehovah lived in the Pleiades, said Samson prefigured socialism (photodrama), and taught that the ancients were to be resurrected in 1925 and so built a mansion (Beth Sarim) for them to live in. They allowed smoking and pictured the Edenic snake with legs. They said the "behemoth" from Job 40 was the stationary steam engine, the "leviathan" from Job 41 was the locomotive and the "valiant men" in Nahum 2:3 are the locomotive conductor and the fireman, and that train travel fulfilled Dan 12:4 "Many will run to and fro".
They said that spirit mediums grew tentacles, and spirits lived among us wearing tweed and drinking whisky but were not able to bleed ("Talking with the Dead" p. 116-126).
They taught the horseman on the white horse in Revelation 6:2 is the Pope, the "7 messengers" in Revelation are Paul, John, Arius, Waldo, Wycliffe, Luther and Russell, the "stars that fell from the heavens" in Revelation 6:13 refers to a meteor shower on November 13, 1833, the "Time of the End" started in 1799, Michael the Archangel is "the Pope of Rome" and the angels are his bishops. The four rivers of Eden represented the little flock, great crowd, ancient worthies and world of mankind.
They declared that all churches would be destroyed by 1918, promised that those alive back then would never die, saluted the flag, worshipped Jesus, said the "Great Crowd" were second class Christians with a heavenly hope, and according to the WT "the end" has been coming "soon" for over 130 years now.
All these teachings were said to be light and truth from Jehovah, were "without question" and "cannot be disputed" (1925 Our Lords Return p.29). Why? wt 1922 Dec 15 p.396 - "those who have seen, held, and taught present Truth, most assuredly have believed that our late beloved leader, Brother Russell, held that position of steward. And this we most certainly hold, both as both a fact and as a necessity of faith."
Do you think it remotely plausible that Jesus examined this group and decided they were more accurate and earnest than every other Christian group?
a few years ago i heard of a story about two jw's being at a green day concert.
i think that the witnesses were bethelites.
the person that told me that story said that the band was about to play but they couldn't.
hardtobeme Green Day had to make an announcement: "Is there any Jehovah's witnesses here?". The two brothers stood up. Then they continue to say:"We cannot start playing until those two are gone". And they had to leave the concert.
What that person didn't tell you was what Green Day said next.
"I would throw you out myself, but for those two big guys you have stood with you...."
i'm finding it more and more funny how every wt article for the public or congregation, including jw broadcast talks about all this "growth" and how fast jehovha's organization is speeding up!
yet everything behind closed doors, insider information, elder letters and sales paint a very different picture.
i have news for you gb members!
Take heart!
Many third world countries are predominantly Muslim, so there will be difficulties getting converts.
a few years ago i heard of a story about two jw's being at a green day concert.
i think that the witnesses were bethelites.
the person that told me that story said that the band was about to play but they couldn't.
The story is true. Green Day went on to write an album about the JW's.
It started when an elder called on Billie Joe at home, prompting "American Idiot"
Then he heard about all of the failed prophecies - "Boulevard of broken dreams".
He read Fred Franz Bible chronology - "Wake me up when September ends".
Finally saw some trolley witnesses - "Jesus of Suburbia".
Prior to all this it's rumoured that Greenday met Stephen Lett - "Basket case".
i'm looking into uav certification.
i can pilot a uav, i'm sure of that, and i think they will become a good source of employment in civilian life.
at least everything i have read supports that idea.
so a friend in a nearby hall told me their co came through, and in a hellish week of long meetings and inquisition overhauled the boe.
only one remains as elder, three were re-appointed as ms, and one, the cobe was deleted entirely.. two new elders were brought in as new secretary and cobe / watchtower conductor, respectively, and introduced to the congregation from the platform on sunday immediately following his second talk.
he reminded everybody of the authority he has and then named the new appointees.
The scriptural difference between an elder and MS is that the elder must be 'qualified to teach'.
Apart from that, no difference.
