february 13, 2017 to all bodies of elders re: memorial and special talk.
What a dilemma for them.
Cast off and shun the inactive ones so they have no detrimental influence on any active ones, or plead for their return to keep the numbers up because no one is coming in via the preaching work anymore.
Either way, there's no Grand Increase anymore.
Something is "speeding up in it's own time", but it's not what they expected.
jehovahs witnesses and the goddard enquiry made the news on bbc radio 4. it talks about how they've deliberately destroyed evidence after being told to hand them over to the courts.. listen to the first minute then fast forward to 33mins:.
https://youtu.be/5sz7szs8sei.
WT statement to the BBC reporters at 42:00 onwards:
"Congregation elders diligently abide by legal responsibilities that rest upon them."
The WT do not explain any legal responsibilities that rest on these untrained, legally ignorant elders, and statements like this from the WT are simply throwing elders under the bus by saying these responsibilities rest upon THEM. This, despite the WT having complete and unchallengable control over the actions of the elders in every single congregational decision they make.
What's their phrase for everything? "Call the WT Legal Department."
When under legal pressure it changes to "Don't look at us, look at the elders."
Cowards.
did you notice the expression "intelligent disobedience" in the febuary 2017 broadcast (at 7:30)?.
it was used with the illustration of a guide dog for blind persons, that sometimes has to disobey it's owner.. what a fine example for us!
.
"You know, we can compare our training, our power of reason, to a blind person using a guide dog. Now an untrained dog would be very helpful to a blind person. It would bark when others were around, for example. However a dog trained in specific skills is amazingly helpful. The dog knows when to stop at curbs, walk around obstacles that the person right (sic) run their head into. A guide dog is also taught a skill called 'intelligent disobedience', and even if the blind person encourages the dog forward it won't obey, but it will pull the person back from danger.
Now, it can take a year or more of training for the dog to learn the amazing skills that are so helpful to a blind person. Likewise, our raw, untrained power of reason can help us to a degree. However, it can be amazing if we take the time to train it."
i'm hoping to start a series of posts refuting common, fallacious jw reasoning that they repeat to support their teachings or defend their organization.
in this first installment i will be tackling the common fallacious analogy used by them to equate eating blood with receiving a transfusion.
feel free to share your own refutations on each thread.. "if a doctor tells you to abstain from alcohol you wouldn't go injecting it into your veins, would you?".
"If a doctor told you to abstain from meat, would you have an organ transplant in order to save your life?"
I've used this before and it literally just kills the discussion dead.
i love math, i love calendars, and somehow, this always gets me.. 2520 - 607 = 1913. not 1914.. 2520 - 606 = 1914. from what i understand, russell realized this.
he had previously used 606 bc, of course, but then he switched it to 607 bc.
i know there was something about no zero year, so it actually should be less one, correct?.
From 607 BCE I understand how the 2520 years can add up to 1914, but I don't understand the arguments against the WT years calculation.
The WT say there are 2520 years from 607 BCE (forget that this isn't a correct date to start with).
It doesn't mention months or gregorian or lunar or anything, just "years".
If I were to ask a Jewish person "what year will it be in 15 years time?" they would look at their calendar, do their sums, and tell us the year. They wouldn't convert to lunar, misplace the leap-months, start adding days etc, they would just add 15 Jewish years to get a result.
The 2520 years is the same.
To my mind this is a non-argument that any JW can demolish just by adding 2520 years to 607 BCE.
The Jewish new year, Rosh Hashanah, is always in autumn. This is in the month of Tishri and corresponds typically to some time in September but occasionally October. It was instituted as a celebration in Lev 23:24-25.
Add 2520 autumns (Jewish years) to any Gregorian date, and you get the date 2520 years later.
To conflate this with all the lunar, leap, Jewish, Gregorian stuff is exactly what WT do to prove a point.
The fatal error in WT calculations is 607 BCE, not the 2520 year calculation.
so, you left because of a bad example(s).. why all the whining?
nothing better to do with your time?.
you at least know far more about the bible than any church-goer?.
people refusing to think call those that DO "trolls".
JW's refusing to think call those that DO "apostates".
so, you left because of a bad example(s).. why all the whining?
nothing better to do with your time?.
you at least know far more about the bible than any church-goer?.
I left because the truths I learned at baptism are no longer the truths today, and today's truths will be changed again tomorrow. It's like chasing shadows. What I was told was vital spiritual food turned out to be junk food.
If the GB don't even know what's going on, why should I trust them?
Or as the WT itself put it:
-- g70 4/22 p. 8 Changes That Disturb People
"Yes, millions of persons have been shocked to learn that things they were taught as being vital for salvation are now considered by their church to be wrong. Have you, too, felt discouragement or even despair because of what is happening in your church? A businessman in Colombia expressed the effect the changes have had on many."Tell me," he asked, "how can I have confidence in anything? How can I believe in the Bible, in God, or have faith? Just ten years ago we Catholics had the absolute truth, we put all our faith in this. Now the pope and our priests are telling us this is not the way to believe any more, but we are to believe 'new things.' How do I know the 'new things' will be the truth in five years?"
I've faced up to it, JW's are no closer to the truth than anyone else.
You can continue to pretend if you like - good luck to you.
we have seen that the society falls back on the line "it is the victims right to approach the authorities" during all the abuse claims.. they use this excuse to try and defend the passive lack of action in failing to report suspected cases of abuse.. a comparison came to mind:.
if we came across a person lying in the street who says they were hit by a car, would we say "it is your absolute right to call the paramedics and police"?.
or would we take the initiative and call those authorities ourselves to help the person?.
For at least 35 years the position of the WT was:
*** g79 3/8 p. 12 Living with Law—Now and
Forever ***
But for handling most differences between
Christians, men well grounded in Biblical principles are available in the
congregations. They are even now helping many to resolve such matters without
the public notice and consequent reproach of court action. In some cases
Christian love may even move one to “suffer injury” rather than harm the good
name of the congregation before those outside.
But there was an adjustment in 2014:
*** lv (God's Love - 2014) p. 223 Resolving
Disputes in Business Matters (footnote)***
In rare instances, one Christian might commit a
serious crime against another—such as rape, assault, murder, or major theft. In
such cases, it would not be unchristian to report the matter to the
authorities, even though doing so might result in a court case or a criminal
trial.
Plus
there's the difference between what's written in the pages and what's said by
the elders.
It
would be very rare for an elder to condone going to the police. For a start he
would need the agreement and concensus of other elders, and for the majority,
contacting the police is just too shameful for the congregation.
i realize that wt has got a wind fall of cash through various means.
so my question is in the greater scheme of things is it really that much.
for example let's say with all their real estate and cash on hand they are worth about $20 billion dollars.
Selling capital assets to pay the operational expenses is not a sustainable business model.
i have been doing research on the arc as some people on here have suggested.
i find it interesting on the case file analysis some of the findings.
it looks like queensland and new south wales had the biggest problems with this.
WT like many other organisations has had many child abusers amongst it's ranks. WT is no different to any other organisation in this regard. No different.
What It does so badly, worse than other organisations, is it retraumatises the child with its woeful investigation procedures, it puts the name of God above justice for the vulnerable, it allows offenders to be in a position to reoffend, and the congregations and society in general are left unprotected.
These massive failures from an organisation that claims to have God's exclusive blessing. It is taking the superior worldly justice systems to drag the WT out of its deluded bubble, forcing them to improve their disastrous and harmful rules.
To see the GB lie and squirm in front of judges is shameful, yet they piously exhibit no shame. Thank God for the world's justices bringing them to account at last, as they would arrogantly continue in their damaging policies if it were not for lawful decent people stopping them.
