january 2014 watchtower study article.
let your kingdom comebut when?.
this generation will not pass away.
Fisherman But since the first group dies and goes to heaven in the twinkle of an eye
Is this still what is taught?
I thought that the 'appointing of the slave over all the masters belongings' was changed from past (1919) to future (Great Trib), so now there is no resurrection to heaven in 1919 since the master has not arrived in that sense, and the FDS have not yet been inspected or declared 'Happy'.
Splash
january 2014 watchtower study article.
let your kingdom comebut when?.
this generation will not pass away.
Hi yadda yadda 2
Here are some of your examples of the Bible's definition of a Generation:
35 years: (Job 42:16, 17) "And Job continued living after this a hundred and forty years and came to see his sons and his grandsons—four generations.
37 years: Jerusalem was destroyed about 37 years later when Jesus said "this generation will by no means pass away"
38 years: Deut 2:14 - And the days that we walked from Ka′desh-bar′ne·a until we crossed the torrent valley of Ze′red were thirty-eight years, until all the generation of the men of war had come to their end.
(Mt 1:17) "All the generations, then, from Abraham until David were fourteen generations, and from David until the deportation to Babylon fourteen generations, and from the deportation to Babylon until the Christ fourteen generations":
- Abraham to David : 2018BCE -> 1107BCE /14 generations = 65 years
- David to deportation : 1107BCE -> 617BCE / 14 generations = 35 years
- Deportation to Christ : 617BCE -> 29CE / 14 generations = 46 years
Splash
january 2014 watchtower study article.
let your kingdom comebut when?.
this generation will not pass away.
If you overlap with Freddy Franz then there's still another 40 years to go.
Fred Franz. Born 1893. Baptized 1913. Died December 1992. This makes him Overlapper Group 1.
Someone could theoretically be born 1972, baptised/anointed 1992, thus overlapping FF and being in Overlapper Group 2.
Born 1972, live to be 80 and die in 2052 = end of 'this generation' is 2052, 220 years after the earliest overlapper generation were born.
This 'not excessively long' generation can now realistically be 220 years long and counting!!
Splash
january 2014 watchtower study article.
let your kingdom comebut when?.
this generation will not pass away.
Previously in this thread I posted:
Group 1: Born 1894. Anointed at 20 in 1914. Died at 80 in 1974
Group 2: Born 1954. Anointed at 20 in 1974. Dies at 80 in 2034
But I see now I have to revise it to add an earlier line, also Group 1:
Group 1: Born 1834. Anointed at 20 in 1854. Died at 80 in 1914
Group 1: Born 1894. Anointed at 20 in 1914. Died at 80 in 1974
Group 2: Born 1954. Anointed at 20 in 1974. Dies at 80 in 2034
This illustrates that the first group could be made up from people who were born anywhere between 1834-1894, who were anointed by 20 and lived for 80 years.
This means that 'this generation' extends from 1834 - 2034. A nice round 200 year old 'generation' which quite contradicts the w10 4/15 article which stated:
"we do well to keep in mind several things about the word “generation”: It usually refers to people of varying ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period; it is not excessively long;"
Splash.
check out this gem from the dec 2013 km which explains why it's good to over this book a second go round.. "congregations previously considered this book during 2004 and 2005. however,for many of the approximately two million publishers who have come into the truth since then,this will be the first time that jehovahs endearing qualities have been discussed in detail.for those who studied the book before, the review will help them to deepen their appreciation forjehovahs attributes.ps.119:14".
i gotta kick out of this because i can only think of maybe two or three new ones in our congregation who weren't present when this book was first studied.
at the same time, going over jehovah's qualities isn't something new.
DOC What was the NET increase? How many left?
| Service Year | Peak Pubs | Increase | % over previous year | Baptised | % over previous year | Memorial | Partakers | Congs | Lands | Left or Died |
| 2003-04 | 6,513,132 | 83,781 | 1.303 | 262,416 | 1.38 | 16,760,607 | 8,570 | 96,894 | 235 | 178,635 |
| 2004-05 | 6,613,829 | 100,697 | 1.546 | 247,631 | -5.63 | 16,383,333 | 8,524 | 98,269 | 235 | 146,934 |
| 2005-06 | 6,741,444 | 127,615 | 1.930 | 248,327 | 0.28 | 16,675,113 | 8,758 | 99,770 | 236 | 120,712 |
| 2006-07 | 6,957,854 | 216,410 | 3.210 | 298,304 | 20.13 | 17,672,443 | 9,105 | 101,376 | 236 | 81,894 |
| 2007-08 | 7,124,443 | 166,589 | 2.394 | 289,678 | -2.89 | 17,790,631 | 9,986 | 103,267 | 236 | 123,089 |
| 2008-09 | 7,313,173 | 188,730 | 2.649 | 276,233 | -4.64 | 18,168,323 | 10,857 | 105,298 | 236 | 87,503 |
| 2009-10 | 7,508,050 | 194,877 | 2.665 | 294,368 | 6.57 | 18,706,895 | 11,202 | 107,000 | 236 | 99,491 |
| 2010-11 | 7,659,019 | 150,969 | 2.011 | 263,131 | -10.61 | 19,374,737 | 11,824 | 109,403 | 236 | 112,162 |
| 2011-12 | 7,782,346 | 123,327 | 1.610 | 268,777 | 2.15 | 19,013,343 | 12,604 | 111,719 | 239 | 145,450 |
| 2012-13 | 7,965,954 | 183,608 | 2.359 | 277,344 | 3.19 | 93,736 |
So roughly 2.2 million were baptised from 05-06 onwards.
At the same time about 864,000 left or died.
Nett increase since 04-05 is just over 1,350,000. This is the equivilent of 2.4% per year.
Splash
january 2014 watchtower study article.
let your kingdom comebut when?.
this generation will not pass away.
Hi DD,
Good additional info!
Can I propose you call your first sub group 'other sheep', but not a 'Great Crowd of other sheep'?
I'm thinking of John 10:16 "I have other sheep which are not of this fold". Jesus was speaking in the present tense (which raises other questions ).
Splash
january 2014 watchtower study article.
let your kingdom comebut when?.
this generation will not pass away.
Hi Fisherman,
No problem in you or anyone asserting your view - I like to call it 'discussion'
If we're talking technicalities then you are correct - the WT does not allocate ages to the groups they refer to. They will never do this and they will never give start and end years for 'this generation'. They like to deal in generalities so they have lots of wriggle room later.
If we're talking about what they seem to be impressing on the flock(s), then the two groups must be distanced by age, otherwise it does not achieve their goal of covering over their last false prediction for 'this generation' while adding sufficient (but not too much) additional time for the coming of the GT.
If there isn't a large number of years between the two groups then either this new light is about to be proven wrong when all those from around 1914 die out, or the GT will be in the next 2 or 3 years, which the WT do not seem to be saying either.
For me, when I read their latest explanation, they are putting another 20 years on the meter.
Splash
january 2014 watchtower study article.
let your kingdom comebut when?.
this generation will not pass away.
The sentence they use is this one:
*** w10 4/15 p. 10 par. 14 Holy Spirit’s Role in the Outworking of Jehovah’s Purpose ***
"He evidently meant that the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 [group 1] would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation [group 2]."
In other words, no one group (I keep wanting to call them 'generation'!) would see both the 1914 sign and the Great Tribulation.
It will require that two groups, two life-spans, need to overlap.
Splash
january 2014 watchtower study article.
let your kingdom comebut when?.
this generation will not pass away.
Hi Fisherman, your explanation confused me a little bit.
The whole point of the new definition of GENERATION is that it doesn't need one single person to see the events from start to finish, the start to finish can be witnesed by two different people who's lives overlap.
And by overlap I don't mean one born in 1894 overlaps with one born in 1915, but rather one born in 1894 overlaps with one born in, say, 1954. eg.
Group 1: Born 1894. Anointed at 20 in 1914. Died at 80 in 1974
Group 2: Born 1954. Anointed at 20 in 1974. Dies at 80 in 2034
So Group 2 'just' overlaps Group 1 while both are anointed in 1974.
So adapting Pixels comment from above, the anointed now have:
1. Anointed who are pre-'this generation' (eg Apostles). These lived and died before 1914.
2. Anointed of the First Group of 'this generation'. These witnessed 1914 while anointed.
3. Anointed of the Second Group of 'this generation'. These overlapped the First Group while anointed themselves.
4. Anointed who are post-'this generation'. These were born after all of the First Group died.
All anointed in points 1. and 2. are now dead.
So all anointed on the earth today, including our FDS, consist of men from both point 3. and point 4.
It's really not that difficult.
Jesus explained all of this very clearly in his statement "This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur".
Splash
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5ckh0lhmf4&list=plynx0om_bmgcurq9a8qz4xy6yrlznyx-l&index=6.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkau04g-bmi&list=plynx0om_bmgcurq9a8qz4xy6yrlznyx-l&index=7.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szllngobifm&list=plynx0om_bmgcurq9a8qz4xy6yrlznyx-l&index=8.
This is an outstanding series.
You need to get the index link published much more widely for people to watch these:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyNx0oM_bmgBFMnAPjR_V5Fe9_pf8sQA1
Splash
